zorg1000 said: marioboy2004 said: I mean one of the pillars of N64 and Gamecube was RAres brilliance, diversity, and appeal. Wii u is looking to sell less than gamecube and it coincides with weak US sales and weak western development i want nintendo to sell more so that they have incentive to continue making consoles but they really need more western developers or even give NOA more autonomy with hiring and starting development teams Rare only had one game release on Gamecube

I know but the people who bought a gamecube didn't anticipate the sale of Rare.  The core nintendo gamers were expecting Perfect Dark, Banjo kazooie, kameo etc. 

and then the xbox did, later on, continue to outsell the Gamcube.

Also there was a drop in hardware sales from the prior generation.

i stand corrected maybe it wasn't a pillar for long term sales but initially the first impression was that The promise of Rare games would be on Gamecube and they even showed some at E3.  The core nintendo gamers most likely bought the system anticipating more than one Rare game.

Incorrect on releasing a broken game and then sending out patches. I would rather wait longer for a complete and well working game. However, correct on Nintendo's arrogance! They insult us with last gen tech with more ram and give us a giant ugly pad with no option to play with a second one? Worse is the high price they are charging for Wii U and for the 3DS! It only costs a little over 100 dollars to make a regular 3DS, but they charge 169? The fact that Nintendo hasn't shaved 100 dollars off the Wii U is an rrogant factor. No true 3D Mario at launch and taking forever to develop Zelda, like they have all of eternity to release it? Arrogant is correct. They may pay the price for it.

marioboy2004 said: What about wii u? I mean the casual audience that the wii attracted is fickle.  The hardcore game base is more loyal then casuals who buy the latest trend (see iphone / ipad).  Where are the millions who bought wiis?  At least N64 had a bigger carry over of gamers from SNES.  I mean the core gamer will wait in anticipation for a new game while casuals don't know it even is launching or even exists unless HEAVILY ADVERTISED OR WORD OF MOUTH MAKES IT A TREND...  Same thing with PS2 many casuals bought it for the dvd aspect.  I was a nintendo only gamer from late 80s/early 90s and even I bought PS2 for the dvd aspect with gameplay benefit

Nintendo has always targeted kids and casuals as their main focus market and for the a lot of the time they got a lot of success doing so. The Gameboy and DS line are some of the best selling consoles ever, the Wii broke over 100 million consoles sold and even the 3DS is well on it's way to end with high hardware sales.

The Wii U on the other hand never appealed to that market, that's why it's not doing well. It was too expensive at launch and did not have enough games to pull in Nintendo's target demographic in. A lot of Nintendo fans, myself included have always enjoyed Nintendo's games the way they were, that was always their appeal. In what way would western devs help Nintendo right now, when the Wii U itself is flawed by concept?

Leadified said: marioboy2004 said: What about wii u? I mean the casual audience that the wii attracted is fickle.  The hardcore game base is more loyal then casuals who buy the latest trend (see iphone / ipad).  Where are the millions who bought wiis?  At least N64 had a bigger carry over of gamers from SNES.  I mean the core gamer will wait in anticipation for a new game while casuals don't know it even is launching or even exists unless HEAVILY ADVERTISED OR WORD OF MOUTH MAKES IT A TREND...  Same thing with PS2 many casuals bought it for the dvd aspect.  I was a nintendo only gamer from late 80s/early 90s and even I bought PS2 for the dvd aspect with gameplay benefit Nintendo has always targeted kids and casuals as their main focus market and for the a lot of the time they got a lot of success doing so. The Gameboy and DS line are some of the best selling consoles ever, the Wii broke over 100 million consoles sold and even the 3DS is well on it's way to end with high hardware sales. The Wii U on the other hand never appealed to that market, that's why it's not doing well. It was too expensive at launch and did not have enough games to pull in Nintendo's target demographic in. A lot of Nintendo fans, myself included have always enjoyed Nintendo's games the way they were, that was always their appeal. In what way would western devs help Nintendo right now, when the Wii U itself is flawed by concept?

In the appeal and image department.  I mean just look at Infamous or Titanfall.  There are games on the wii u that may be better quality but they just don't appeal to certain people (ex dragon quest in America).  Nintendo just needs some variety in game genres that would help their appeal.  

Western development is a weakness that they have but it WASNT ALWAYS THIS WAY; Turok, Rogue Squadron, WWE No mercy, Goldeneye, Killer instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet force Gemini, Battle toads, etc ( now u see where Rare is sorely missed)

marioboy2004 said: Leadified said: Nintendo has always targeted kids and casuals as their main focus market and for the a lot of the time they got a lot of success doing so. The Gameboy and DS line are some of the best selling consoles ever, the Wii broke over 100 million consoles sold and even the 3DS is well on it's way to end with high hardware sales. The Wii U on the other hand never appealed to that market, that's why it's not doing well. It was too expensive at launch and did not have enough games to pull in Nintendo's target demographic in. A lot of Nintendo fans, myself included have always enjoyed Nintendo's games the way they were, that was always their appeal. In what way would western devs help Nintendo right now, when the Wii U itself is flawed by concept? In the appeal and image department.  I mean just look at Infamous or Titanfall.  There are games on the wii u that may be better quality but they just don't appeal to certain people (ex dragon quest in America).  Nintendo just needs some variety in game genres that would help their appeal.   Western development is a weakness that they have but it WASNT ALWAYS THIS WAY; Turok, Rogue Squadron, WWE No mercy, Goldeneye, Killer instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet force Gemini, Battle toads, etc ( now u see where Rare is sorely missed)

So then why did the N64, especially, sell worse than the SNES? Which did not have as close to as much western support. I fail to see how western development = more hardware sales.

gamemaster4747 said: Incorrect on releasing a broken game and then sending out patches. I would rather wait longer for a complete and well working game. However, correct on Nintendo's arrogance! They insult us with last gen tech with more ram and give us a giant ugly pad with no option to play with a second one? Worse is the high price they are charging for Wii U and for the 3DS! It only costs a little over 100 dollars to make a regular 3DS, but they charge 169? The fact that Nintendo hasn't shaved 100 dollars off the Wii U is an rrogant factor. No true 3D Mario at launch and taking forever to develop Zelda, like they have all of eternity to release it? Arrogant is correct. They may pay the price for it.

Ur post implies u dont like the "giant ugly pad" so why would u want a 2nd one? Nintendo hasnt shaved $100 dollars off the Wii U not because they are arrogant but because they would lose billions of dollars by doing so considering the fact that it already is sold at a loss and they arent arrogant for pricing 3DS at $169, its selling very well so clearly people dont have a problem with it plus there is a $129 sku available if $169 is too much. By that logic Microsoft is arrogant because 360 hasnt had a price cut in over 5 years and is sold at a profit. No true 3D Mario at launch? We might as well critisize Sony for not having a Naughty Dog game at launch or Microsoft for not having Halo 5 at launch. Would u rather have them rush Zelda and affect its quality? The Zelda team has released Skyward Sword in 2011 and Link Between Worlds in 2013, I guess Zelda U could be out by now if they decided to neglect Wii or 3DS. Nintendo has made many mistakes lately but ur post is just wrong or doesnt make sense.

marioboy2004 said: zorg1000 said: marioboy2004 said: I mean one of the pillars of N64 and Gamecube was RAres brilliance, diversity, and appeal. Wii u is looking to sell less than gamecube and it coincides with weak US sales and weak western development i want nintendo to sell more so that they have incentive to continue making consoles but they really need more western developers or even give NOA more autonomy with hiring and starting development teams Rare only had one game release on Gamecube I know but the people who bought a gamecube didn't anticipate the sale of Rare.  The core nintendo gamers were expecting Perfect Dark, Banjo kazooie, kameo etc.  and then the xbox did, later on, continue to outsell the Gamcube. Also there was a drop in hardware sales from the prior generation. i stand corrected maybe it wasn't a pillar for long term sales but initially the first impression was that The promise of Rare games would be on Gamecube and they even showed some at E3.  The core nintendo gamers most likely bought the system anticipating more than one Rare game.

Ok I get what u meant now

Leadified said: marioboy2004 said: Leadified said: Nintendo has always targeted kids and casuals as their main focus market and for the a lot of the time they got a lot of success doing so. The Gameboy and DS line are some of the best selling consoles ever, the Wii broke over 100 million consoles sold and even the 3DS is well on it's way to end with high hardware sales. The Wii U on the other hand never appealed to that market, that's why it's not doing well. It was too expensive at launch and did not have enough games to pull in Nintendo's target demographic in. A lot of Nintendo fans, myself included have always enjoyed Nintendo's games the way they were, that was always their appeal. In what way would western devs help Nintendo right now, when the Wii U itself is flawed by concept? In the appeal and image department.  I mean just look at Infamous or Titanfall.  There are games on the wii u that may be better quality but they just don't appeal to certain people (ex dragon quest in America).  Nintendo just needs some variety in game genres that would help their appeal.   Western development is a weakness that they have but it WASNT ALWAYS THIS WAY; Turok, Rogue Squadron, WWE No mercy, Goldeneye, Killer instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet force Gemini, Battle toads, etc ( now u see where Rare is sorely missed) So then why did the N64, especially, sell worse than the SNES? Which did not have as close to as much western support. I fail to see how western development = more hardware sales.

Japan is the only region where N64 was significantly down from SNES, due to losing Final Fantasy+Dragon Quest.

In America N64 only saw a 2.77 million drop, Europe saw a 1.8 million drop and Japan had an 11.63 million drop.

Leadified said: marioboy2004 said: Leadified said: Nintendo has always targeted kids and casuals as their main focus market and for the a lot of the time they got a lot of success doing so. The Gameboy and DS line are some of the best selling consoles ever, the Wii broke over 100 million consoles sold and even the 3DS is well on it's way to end with high hardware sales. The Wii U on the other hand never appealed to that market, that's why it's not doing well. It was too expensive at launch and did not have enough games to pull in Nintendo's target demographic in. A lot of Nintendo fans, myself included have always enjoyed Nintendo's games the way they were, that was always their appeal. In what way would western devs help Nintendo right now, when the Wii U itself is flawed by concept? In the appeal and image department.  I mean just look at Infamous or Titanfall.  There are games on the wii u that may be better quality but they just don't appeal to certain people (ex dragon quest in America).  Nintendo just needs some variety in game genres that would help their appeal.   Western development is a weakness that they have but it WASNT ALWAYS THIS WAY; Turok, Rogue Squadron, WWE No mercy, Goldeneye, Killer instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet force Gemini, Battle toads, etc ( now u see where Rare is sorely missed) So then why did the N64, especially, sell worse than the SNES? Which did not have as close to as much western support. I fail to see how western development = more hardware sales.

Yes, it's not only western support, the Japanese video game industry was still more important during the 5th generation. PS1 had Capcom, Square and Konami. The western developers grew a lot during the PS1 era and started to dominate in the 6th gen.

Leadified said: marioboy2004 said: In the appeal and image department.  I mean just look at Infamous or Titanfall.  There are games on the wii u that may be better quality but they just don't appeal to certain people (ex dragon quest in America).  Nintendo just needs some variety in game genres that would help their appeal.   Western development is a weakness that they have but it WASNT ALWAYS THIS WAY; Turok, Rogue Squadron, WWE No mercy, Goldeneye, Killer instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Jet force Gemini, Battle toads, etc ( now u see where Rare is sorely missed) So then why did the N64, especially, sell worse than the SNES? Which did not have as close to as much western support. I fail to see how western development = more hardware sales.

There was a time where Japanese game developers were the most competent developers for consoles.  Now that PC and console specs can match closely American developers have become a big player in the console arena.  Being inclusive to only Japanese developers really is not what nintendo should be doing especially if it wants to capture a bigger western audience and bigger piece of the pie.  Nintendo after all is a business and businesses should thrive on sales and profit.

Don't get me wrong nintendo makes the best platformers and certain adventure games but should try to appeal to other types of gamers too.