By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why Final Fantasy 15 can easily run on Wii U

solidcobra on 21 March 2014
VanceIX said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
I only have this to say about the op: the ps4 and x1 are way, way more powerful than the wiiu. Its not close. I do belive that almost any game can be downgraded to fit on the wiiu, but anyone would see the difference. To say the wiiu is close to the ps4/x1 is funny. The wiiu is close to the ps360.... even if the wiiu was 500 g flops, thats still no where near 1.3 t flops(x1) or 1.8 t flops(ps4)... I dont think anyone should ever argue about the wiiu power vs the ps4/x1.... ever. The old wii was closer to the ps360 than the wiiu is to the ps4-1.... and that wasnt really close either.

NO. the wii was 20x+ less powerfull than ps360. wii u vs xone vs ps4 is more like 1 vs 2 vs 3.

and it's not only raw power (although i'd guess 600 gflops on wii u), the wii u has all the modern effects and tools that ps360 lack, wich makes the difference.

No way the wiiu is 600 gflops.not a chance. 400 maybe, but their is no way its pushin 600. Look, i love nintendo, but the reality is, the wiiu is built for low power consumption, not built for power. It may have some more slightly moremodern features, but theres just no way its at nearly half the x1 power. I think i remember reading that the ps360 were around 300 gflops, so 400 for the u is optimistic, i think. There isnt one wiiu game that looks like its above the ps360's best.hell, the new tomb raider on the 360 looks better than anything on the u.... i have the wiiu, i love it. But my eyes tell me that it is basically a ps360, with more ram, and better shaders. Thats it. But as i said before, i do think ps4/x1 games can fit on the wiiu, but the differences would be so obvious, that my mom could tell the difference.

the 360 has 240 gigaflops and i don't see why it's unthinkable for wii u to have 600, when we already know the wii u is far more capable than 360.

games like pikmin 3, 3d world, bayonetta 2, mario kart 8 and X are early wii u titles and far surpass late 360 games.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Wii U has anywhere from 350-450 Gigaflops, no where near 600. C'mon now, I love the Wii U as much as anyone, but this is rediculous. You can't just expect every single game to be optimized for your console.

 


here is the direct quote from the NFSWU/project car dev  Martin Griffiths


Not sure where they got that info from but the WiiU GPU has 192 Shader units, not 160. It also has 32MB of EDRAM, (the same amount as Xbox One) so comparing just the number of shader units against a PC card doesn't give a representative performance comparison. On the CPU side, WiiU also supports multi-threaded rendering that scales perfectly with the number of cores you throw at it, unlike PC DX11 deferred contexts which don't scale very well. The current WiiU build runs around 18-25fps with 5AI with all post (FXAA/Motion blur etc) enabled, which is fairly good given only the fairly cursory optimisation pass that it's had

 

Wiiu is any where from 176 gflops to 350, multiple sources have confirmed it's 176 gflops, the reason nintendo keeps them secret is because they are down right embarrassing. 



Around the Network
solidcobra on 21 March 2014

Here what developers not zero think about wiiu power vs 360/PS3 now if the wiiu was 2x 360/PS3 developers would state this, and at least one port would prove this but not port shows this after a full year on the market.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.

Anonymous developer


Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders


"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."


http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles. 

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′



solidcobra on 21 March 2014
solidcobra said:

Double post



Soundwave on 21 March 2014
solidcobra said:
VanceIX said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
I only have this to say about the op: the ps4 and x1 are way, way more powerful than the wiiu. Its not close. I do belive that almost any game can be downgraded to fit on the wiiu, but anyone would see the difference. To say the wiiu is close to the ps4/x1 is funny. The wiiu is close to the ps360.... even if the wiiu was 500 g flops, thats still no where near 1.3 t flops(x1) or 1.8 t flops(ps4)... I dont think anyone should ever argue about the wiiu power vs the ps4/x1.... ever. The old wii was closer to the ps360 than the wiiu is to the ps4-1.... and that wasnt really close either.

NO. the wii was 20x+ less powerfull than ps360. wii u vs xone vs ps4 is more like 1 vs 2 vs 3.

and it's not only raw power (although i'd guess 600 gflops on wii u), the wii u has all the modern effects and tools that ps360 lack, wich makes the difference.

No way the wiiu is 600 gflops.not a chance. 400 maybe, but their is no way its pushin 600. Look, i love nintendo, but the reality is, the wiiu is built for low power consumption, not built for power. It may have some more slightly moremodern features, but theres just no way its at nearly half the x1 power. I think i remember reading that the ps360 were around 300 gflops, so 400 for the u is optimistic, i think. There isnt one wiiu game that looks like its above the ps360's best.hell, the new tomb raider on the 360 looks better than anything on the u.... i have the wiiu, i love it. But my eyes tell me that it is basically a ps360, with more ram, and better shaders. Thats it. But as i said before, i do think ps4/x1 games can fit on the wiiu, but the differences would be so obvious, that my mom could tell the difference.

the 360 has 240 gigaflops and i don't see why it's unthinkable for wii u to have 600, when we already know the wii u is far more capable than 360.

games like pikmin 3, 3d world, bayonetta 2, mario kart 8 and X are early wii u titles and far surpass late 360 games.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Wii U has anywhere from 350-450 Gigaflops, no where near 600. C'mon now, I love the Wii U as much as anyone, but this is rediculous. You can't just expect every single game to be optimized for your console.

 


here is the direct quote from the NFSWU/project car dev  Martin Griffiths


Not sure where they got that info from but the WiiU GPU has 192 Shader units, not 160. It also has 32MB of EDRAM, (the same amount as Xbox One) so comparing just the number of shader units against a PC card doesn't give a representative performance comparison. On the CPU side, WiiU also supports multi-threaded rendering that scales perfectly with the number of cores you throw at it, unlike PC DX11 deferred contexts which don't scale very well. The current WiiU build runs around 18-25fps with 5AI with all post (FXAA/Motion blur etc) enabled, which is fairly good given only the fairly cursory optimisation pass that it's had

 

Wiiu is any where from 176 gflops to 350, multiple sources have confirmed it's 176 gflops, the reason nintendo keeps them secret is because they are down right embarrassing. 


It has nothing to do with being embarrassed, Nintendo could have 1 TFLOP console if they wanted to. They choose not to because with the Wii they decided to go a different approach -- they did research and found casuals don't like big, loud consoles and I think the low power draw is Nintendo's idealism showing through. After the Japanese earthquake, huge power sucking devices are taboo, and Nintendo predictably builds their console from a Japanese sensibility. 

They have to balance all that on top of the console having to be relatively affordable as Nintendo skews more towards kids/families and needs to be be priced lower. Throw in an ill-advised very expensive controller and having to meet all those previous requirements (must be small/non-descript as to not scare away casuals, must not use a lot of electricity for mother Japan, must be affordable enough for kids to get one) and you get the Wii U. 



solidcobra on 21 March 2014
Soundwave said:
solidcobra said:
VanceIX said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
Zero999 said:
Justagamer said:
I only have this to say about the op: the ps4 and x1 are way, way more powerful than the wiiu. Its not close. I do belive that almost any game can be downgraded to fit on the wiiu, but anyone would see the difference. To say the wiiu is close to the ps4/x1 is funny. The wiiu is close to the ps360.... even if the wiiu was 500 g flops, thats still no where near 1.3 t flops(x1) or 1.8 t flops(ps4)... I dont think anyone should ever argue about the wiiu power vs the ps4/x1.... ever. The old wii was closer to the ps360 than the wiiu is to the ps4-1.... and that wasnt really close either.

NO. the wii was 20x+ less powerfull than ps360. wii u vs xone vs ps4 is more like 1 vs 2 vs 3.

and it's not only raw power (although i'd guess 600 gflops on wii u), the wii u has all the modern effects and tools that ps360 lack, wich makes the difference.

No way the wiiu is 600 gflops.not a chance. 400 maybe, but their is no way its pushin 600. Look, i love nintendo, but the reality is, the wiiu is built for low power consumption, not built for power. It may have some more slightly moremodern features, but theres just no way its at nearly half the x1 power. I think i remember reading that the ps360 were around 300 gflops, so 400 for the u is optimistic, i think. There isnt one wiiu game that looks like its above the ps360's best.hell, the new tomb raider on the 360 looks better than anything on the u.... i have the wiiu, i love it. But my eyes tell me that it is basically a ps360, with more ram, and better shaders. Thats it. But as i said before, i do think ps4/x1 games can fit on the wiiu, but the differences would be so obvious, that my mom could tell the difference.

the 360 has 240 gigaflops and i don't see why it's unthinkable for wii u to have 600, when we already know the wii u is far more capable than 360.

games like pikmin 3, 3d world, bayonetta 2, mario kart 8 and X are early wii u titles and far surpass late 360 games.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Wii U has anywhere from 350-450 Gigaflops, no where near 600. C'mon now, I love the Wii U as much as anyone, but this is rediculous. You can't just expect every single game to be optimized for your console.

 


here is the direct quote from the NFSWU/project car dev  Martin Griffiths


Not sure where they got that info from but the WiiU GPU has 192 Shader units, not 160. It also has 32MB of EDRAM, (the same amount as Xbox One) so comparing just the number of shader units against a PC card doesn't give a representative performance comparison. On the CPU side, WiiU also supports multi-threaded rendering that scales perfectly with the number of cores you throw at it, unlike PC DX11 deferred contexts which don't scale very well. The current WiiU build runs around 18-25fps with 5AI with all post (FXAA/Motion blur etc) enabled, which is fairly good given only the fairly cursory optimisation pass that it's had

 

Wiiu is any where from 176 gflops to 350, multiple sources have confirmed it's 176 gflops, the reason nintendo keeps them secret is because they are down right embarrassing. 


It has nothing to do with being embarrassed, Nintendo could have 1 TFLOP console if they wanted to. They choose not to because with the Wii they decided to go a different approach -- they did research and found casuals don't like big, loud consoles and I think the low power draw is Nintendo's idealism showing through. After the Japanese earthquake, huge power sucking devices are taboo, and Nintendo predictably builds their console from a Japanese sensibility. 

They have to balance all that on top of the console having to be relatively affordable as Nintendo skews more towards kids/families and needs to be be priced lower. Throw in an ill-advised very expensive controller and having to meet all those previous requirements (must be small/non-descript as to not scare away casuals, must not use a lot of electricity for mother Japan, must be affordable enough for kids to get one) and you get the Wii U. 


Then what's the reason for hiding the specs? sure they don't care about making a powerful console, but why are there specs kept secret, because quite frankly they are embarrassing compared to the competition how embarrassing would be for nintendo to announce wiiu with a 176 gflops gpu that's great on saving energy and being efficient



Around the Network
JazzB1987 on 21 March 2014
Fusioncode said:
No, no it can't Zero. Not without major downgrades. You're too obsessed with resolution. The PS4 and XBO each have 8GB or ram, while the WiiU only has 2GB. That isn't just going to hurt the graphics, it will affect level size, number of enemies on screen, AI intelligence, and so on.




A.I is stuck in like 2005 or so  GTA5's A.I is exactly as dumb as it was in GTA4 etc. And since forever devs dont know or cant be bothered to make A.I better so they let the A.I cheat. Be it GTA or RTS games or whatever  A.I either cheats or is completely scripted. So I am pretty sure the PS2 could handle the next FF game's A.I. (e.g COD enemies were not really dumber on Wii compared to PC  both were far from anything that could be considered smart)


Lets say PS4 is 1080p 60 FPS with everything on ultra.

Let the WiiU version be 1024x576 (like FF13 was on 360) reduce the polycount and the texture resolution basically set it to medium settings. Add some fog or whatever to hide lower draw distance and make the game run at 25FPS (Xenoblade in europe ran at 25 FPS and noone cared/noticed because the framerate was pretty constant and not all over the place)



Zero999 on 21 March 2014
solidcobra said:
Zero999 said:

the 360 has 240 gigaflops and i don't see why it's unthinkable for wii u to have 600, when we already know the wii u is far more capable than 360.

games like pikmin 3, 3d world, bayonetta 2, mario kart 8 and X are early wii u titles and far surpass late 360 games.

It can't be far more capable because it's impossible for a gpu with 2x the power to struggle in most ports of a 240 gflops gpu let alone, a gpu with  3x the power, this has never before been seen on consoles or pc's even with out optimization. 

i guess that's why the ps2 ports ran worse on the 360.



Zero999 on 21 March 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
Zero999 said:

the 360 has 240 gigaflops and i don't see why it's unthinkable for wii u to have 600, when we already know the wii u is far more capable than 360.

games like pikmin 3, 3d world, bayonetta 2, mario kart 8 and X are early wii u titles and far surpass late 360 games.

You. Are. Not. Objective.

 

You simply WANT the U to have 600GFlops but have absolutely NO basis to back it up apart from your own desires.

you are free to think the many games from early wii u life that far surpass a machine wth 240 gflops = no basis, but reality says otherwise.



Zero999 on 21 March 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
Zero999 said:

NO. the wii was 20x+ less powerfull than ps360. wii u vs xone vs ps4 is more like 1 vs 2 vs 3.

and it's not only raw power (although i'd guess 600 gflops on wii u), the wii u has all the modern effects and tools that ps360 lack, wich makes the difference.

Further more as someone who actually owned a 620GFLop card (Radeon 5670HD GDDR5) and who currently owns a WiiU I can completely rule that out. Virtually impossible. If it were every 7th gen port would be 900p30 out the box with no "optimisation" required. 900p60 would be true for Nintendos 1st party games, stop making things up Zero.

A DX10 based 4850HD is still more powerful than a DX11 based 5670HD so stop acting like thats magical fairy dust. DX11 features mean nothing if the card cant use them in real time at acceptible performance levels.

bold: because a non customized graphic card on a PC performs in the exact same way as on a console, right?



Zero999 on 21 March 2014
JazzB1987 said:
Fusioncode said:
No, no it can't Zero. Not without major downgrades. You're too obsessed with resolution. The PS4 and XBO each have 8GB or ram, while the WiiU only has 2GB. That isn't just going to hurt the graphics, it will affect level size, number of enemies on screen, AI intelligence, and so on.




A.I is stuck in like 2005 or so  GTA5's A.I is exactly as dumb as it was in GTA4 etc. And since forever devs dont know or cant be bothered to make A.I better so they let the A.I cheat. Be it GTA or RTS games or whatever  A.I either cheats or is completely scripted. So I am pretty sure the PS2 could handle the next FF game's A.I. (e.g COD enemies were not really dumber on Wii compared to PC  both were far from anything that could be considered smart)


Lets say PS4 is 1080p 60 FPS with everything on ultra.

Let the WiiU version be 1024x576 (like FF13 was on 360) reduce the polycount and the texture resolution basically set it to medium settings. Add some foq or whatever to hide lower draw distance and make the game run at 25FPS (Xenoblade in europe ran at 25 FPS and noone cared/noticed because the framerate was pretty constant and not all over the place)

I agree on the A.I. that many use as an excuse hardware demand but it's been on the same level for a while.

But a wii u version would easily run it on 720p and maybe 60fps too, without any many downgrades.