By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why The PS4 Is Kicking Xbox One's Arse

Tagged games:

theprof00 said:
Xenostar said:
theprof00 said:

haha yeah. But, makes me think...they possibly could just introduce a new SKU, rather than dropping it.

New SKU at 349 or 399, and sell kinect2 for 200. That could do well for them I think. It would mark the cost of the parts for the consumer, artificially creating value for the packed in SKU.

I just don't know if the system can support running without kinect. I'm not sure how integrated it is with the console to be honest.


Works fine without kinect other than being a bit hard to navigate due to poor UI.

Also there would be no fallout from early adopters they paid more but they got kinect, an early price cut without a downgrade would cause fallout.

But i dont believe they could drop $200 by just removing kinect, xbox is under pressure from shareholders to be super profitable like other divisions, loss leader for a 3rd gen in a row to increase market share would not be acceptable.

There already was some fallout just from the UK price cut, and the game bundurus.

There will be people who just wanted to xb1, and not the kinect, but bought it day 1 thinking there was no way around it. I just don't know how many. It could be a small minority...but they do exist.

Also, iirc an xbox one person tweeted at some point that kinect made up almost half the cost of the system.

If you look at it from the perspective of the ps4, with gddr5 costing in the area of 50-70$ more than the x1, and the chip likely costing around 10-20$ more, You're looking at a system (without kinect) costing roughly 320$ or something. So, yeah, you're basically saddled with a 150-200$ kinect since all the other parts are nearly identical.

Well the fallout came more from PS fans who pretended they were day 1 adopters and got mad on X1 buyers behalf :P. Most X1 people I came across online didn't seem to really mind.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Around the Network

75% of the problem is Price.

The other 25% is straight confusion as to what the console can do besides games. M$ has done a shit ton of advertising of the other features of the XB1, but most people just assume the PS4 can do them too.

So, why would someone buy an XB1 for $100 more and not get anything feature wise for it? That's the dilemma for Joe average. Early adopters are for the most part only interested in the gaming aspects. So, the PS4 is getting an early lead from that point. The real problem for M$ is that it is also creating a buzz that the PS4 is outselling the XB1 so much that it is becoming the must have for that reason alone.

Seems obvious, that M$ is aware that they need to work on price to eliminate as much of the price disparity as possible. The whole indie games thing is already becoming a non issue in the near future and if M$ can add some of these cheap indie titles into the Gold package, most of that will be mute also. Only time will really tell, and it will be a year before we have enough real data to know what will happen.



It is near the end of the end....

95% being attributed solely to price was a percentage pulled out of a hat.

I haven't watched the video yet; I'll do so after this post, so I'm not influenced by it.

The reason why is the XB1 had everything going against it heading into launch, leaving little reason other than brand loyalty and the potential for early shortages of supply to drive sales.

Highest price, worst PR and slightly lower specs with resultant performance issues.

It is never advantageous to start a generation with the highest MSRP; no one will disagree with this, but a high MSRP, not necessarily even the highest, will in effect price a product out of the range of general consumers. This is not necessarily what they can afford though, as those who really want a product will find a way to pay for it, or go into debt to obtain one regardless of price.

So what we're really talking about is perceived value at a given price with the perceived scarcity of an item as well as the willingness to wait for a discount based upon realistic expectations.

What does that mean? We have a $500 product competing with a $400 product that runs most of the same games, is widely available (no panic or impulse buys), with resulting rumors of cheaper bundles or a price correction and no immediate reason to pay full price. The Titanfall bundle is the effective first discount at $60 MSRP (obviously not the same as dropping $60 off the price of the console) for those who planned on buying the game at the same time they bought the console on which to play it. Others will wait for a bundle that includes the game they're waiting for or a price reduction. The market for $500 game consoles is simply smaller than at other price points. It should be added that the incentive to buy a new console to play a specific game is severely blunted by being available on its cheaper sibling that many already have, or a gaming PC.



sales2099 said:
theprof00 said:
Xenostar said:
theprof00 said:

haha yeah. But, makes me think...they possibly could just introduce a new SKU, rather than dropping it.

New SKU at 349 or 399, and sell kinect2 for 200. That could do well for them I think. It would mark the cost of the parts for the consumer, artificially creating value for the packed in SKU.

I just don't know if the system can support running without kinect. I'm not sure how integrated it is with the console to be honest.


Works fine without kinect other than being a bit hard to navigate due to poor UI.

Also there would be no fallout from early adopters they paid more but they got kinect, an early price cut without a downgrade would cause fallout.

But i dont believe they could drop $200 by just removing kinect, xbox is under pressure from shareholders to be super profitable like other divisions, loss leader for a 3rd gen in a row to increase market share would not be acceptable.

There already was some fallout just from the UK price cut, and the game bundurus.

There will be people who just wanted to xb1, and not the kinect, but bought it day 1 thinking there was no way around it. I just don't know how many. It could be a small minority...but they do exist.

Also, iirc an xbox one person tweeted at some point that kinect made up almost half the cost of the system.

If you look at it from the perspective of the ps4, with gddr5 costing in the area of 50-70$ more than the x1, and the chip likely costing around 10-20$ more, You're looking at a system (without kinect) costing roughly 320$ or something. So, yeah, you're basically saddled with a 150-200$ kinect since all the other parts are nearly identical.

Well the fallout came more from PS fans who pretended they were day 1 adopters and got mad on X1 buyers behalf :P. Most X1 people I came across online didn't seem to really mind.

well, that's possible of course, but I mean 3ds had a lot of fallout too. Pushing Nintendo to introduce the ambassador program.

When people buy a console right out of the gate, they're kind of under the impression that the price will remain inflexible for quite some time...otherwise there is likely a portion who would have waited. For example with the ps3, we saw that most people simply waited until ps3 got its price cut 2008 with the slim. Price drops show massive sales in the first couple weeks because those are people that had been waiting.

So when you get that system day 1, it's usually because you don't want to wait however long you assume the price will be the same...if that time period is much shorter than you had imagined it, it creates disappointment because had you known the length of time, you might have considered waiting.

...In theory

The reality might be different, of course.



padib said:
DucksUnlimited said:

Uhh....what? It has games bundled and has since launch. And casuals aren't exactly the target demographic for DLC. Either way, you're pointing to things other than price, which is just proving my point.

And the bolded isn't even an argument. You're essentially saying "the Wii U didn't sell well, therefore it's because of the price." That isn't a logical conclusion. In fact, it isn't even a conclusion at all. It's a claim that has been poorly disguised as one.

Also, last I checked, $299 isn't $100 more than $250. Not to mention the fact that you're ignoring inflation.

Ducks, what I'm saying is not complicated. I added some corrections after checking Wikipedia.

Wii's introductory price was 250$. It included Wii Sports.

Wii U basic set's introductory price was 300$. It did not have a game included and was limited to 8GB of data, half of which is reserved for the OS.

Wii U premium set's introductory price was 350$. It included Nintendo Land and offered 32GB of data, postponing the need for an EHD. This is the real equivalent to the Wii, at a 100$ price increase, at a time when a PS3 can be purchased at $200.

My opinion is a statement based on logic. Games of the Wii family are targeted at a mainstream audience, these are known to buy consoles at a lower price, hence why there is a sales curve for all consoles, where some people are early adopters, while the mainstream wait for a more affordable price.

This is reasonable, and to suspect that the U hasn't sold to the mainstream (its targeted audience) due to a forbidding price is only logical.

Thanks.



Only a short few months after the Wii U's launch and it was only $50 more than the Wii's launch price. Hell, when you adjust for inflation, the Wii was only $15 cheaper at launch than the Wii U currently is. It also continued to get more of the "Wii' style games. And yet neither the Wii U nor these games took off. Why? Do you honestly think $50 (actually even less) makes the difference between Wii-like sales and Wii U-like sales?

Bolded: And what does that have to do with anything? The PS2 was far more popular in 2006 than the PS3 was in 2012 and could be purchased at a lower price, so I'm failing to see your point.

Bolded 2: Is that why the first pricedrop did next to nothing? The Wii U's potential for sales has never been like the Wii's and it never will be. It doesn't have the same appeal to casuals, regardless of the price. You can pretend that less than a $100 difference makes the difference between record breaking sales and terrible sales, but there's just no basis for it.



Around the Network

sales2099 said:

Well support as in "existing", the console is in its 9th year....bet nobody saw that coming in 2005 lol. With games, I can allready see this happening: I give the list and you will pick it apart. But for the 9th year with X1 allready out, id say MS didn't have to secure any of these but did anyway.

Fable Anniversary, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Fantasia: Music Evolved, Project Spark, Warface, Trials Fusion (not on PS3), Tropico 5 (not on PS3). Also timed exclusivity of PVZ Z: Garden Warfare and Peggle 2.

Titanfall and Project Spark being the main standouts, Fable Anniversary to a lesser extent for the graphical upgrade and not just being a mere HD release.

Thanks, 

Its clear from the list that MS has supported the 360 alot better than it did the OG Xbox...but wait a minute something seems fishy.

Out of this list which of those games aren't on XB1:

Fable Anniversary, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Fantasia: Music Evolved, Project Spark, Warface, Trials Fusion (not on PS3), Tropico 5 (not on PS3). Also timed exclusivity of PVZ Z: Garden Warfare and Peggle 2.

Ah well there still a lot... but what about not on PC:

Fable Anniversary, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Fantasia: Music Evolved, Project Spark, Warface, Trials Fusion (not on PS3), Tropico 5 (not on PS3). Also timed exclusivity of PVZ Z: Garden Warfare and Peggle 2.

Well...Its more than the PS3...oh wait...

PS3 has a whole bunch of jrpg exclusives that PS4 isn't getting yet...man

I guess its an improvement form what they did with the Xbox OG.

MS sure is learning!



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

theprof00 said:
sales2099 said:

Well the fallout came more from PS fans who pretended they were day 1 adopters and got mad on X1 buyers behalf :P. Most X1 people I came across online didn't seem to really mind.

well, that's possible of course, but I mean 3ds had a lot of fallout too. Pushing Nintendo to introduce the ambassador program.

When people buy a console right out of the gate, they're kind of under the impression that the price will remain inflexible for quite some time...otherwise there is likely a portion who would have waited. For example with the ps3, we saw that most people simply waited until ps3 got its price cut 2008 with the slim. Price drops show massive sales in the first couple weeks because those are people that had been waiting.

So when you get that system day 1, it's usually because you don't want to wait however long you assume the price will be the same...if that time period is much shorter than you had imagined it, it creates disappointment because had you known the length of time, you might have considered waiting.

...In theory

The reality might be different, of course.

To my understanding, the reward of early adopting is the time you have while someone else doesn't experience what you have. When a future deal presents itself and said consumer takes advantage, the early adopter still has the edge of spending months with that experience where as the others didn't.

Time is money and 5 months with a Xbox One (or any console) is arguably worth as much or more then the price of a day 1 game. That's just my take anyway, I liked your concise response as well.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

theprof00 said:
If sales were about price, how does 360 beat ps3 in some markets and not in others? The price differences are the same in every market.

Also, if xb1 was a hundred dollars cheaper than ps4, I think it would be outselling it because that would basically be a 50% price cut, which is huge. The important thing to understand here, and which rings true to the jimquisition video posted in the OP, is that the xb1 COULD have been 100$ cheaper than the ps4. MS chose to include something that isn't resonating with gamers. MS CHOSE to be more expensive and in doing so they put themselves on bad footing.

MS did this to themselves. They could have launched at 400 or 350 or maybe even 300, but they decided instead to push a proprietary hardware that 33% of the market has since considered valuable.


What you SHOULD have said instead of "price" is "value".
ps4 is selling better because it is a better VALUE.

xb1 at 300$ would have much more VALUE than ps4. It's not the price makes the difference.... as shown by Sony last gen....it's the value.

If the XB1 was $100 cheaper, then its fair to assume that the XB1 would be of pooer quality it terms of specs. I doubth that MS could have made the XB1 $100 cheaper and end up matching PS4 specs at that price. So we cant just change the price and not take into consideration that the specs would be much lower.  Also if MS could launch at $400 then Sony could launch at $300, thats how this argument is going to work.

Nothing would change if the XB1 was $100 cheaper, it would still outsold by a more superior console, that would aslo be $100 cheaper. 

Fail argument.



I haven't watched the video as of yet, but my reasons would be:

Cheaper
More powerful
Better third party titles
More promising future in terms of exclusives from first party studios (Personal preference)
Better controller (Personal preference)
Better Indie support

That's all that I can think of off the top of my head.



I have to laugh at the people saying "but if the ONE was $100 cheaper, it would be winning".

If it was $100 cheaper than the PS4, it would either be as powerful as the WiiU or Microsoft would be losing to much money to stay in the game.



 

 

        Wii FC: 6440 8298 7583 0720   XBOX GT: WICK1978               PSN: its_the_wick   3DS: 1676-3747-7846                                          Nintendo Network: its-the-wick

Systems I've owned: Atari 2600, NES, SNES, GBColor, N64, Gamecube, PS2, Xbox, GBAdvance, DSlite, PSP, Wii, Xbox360, PS3, 3DS, PSVita, PS4, 3DS XL, Wii U

The best quote I've seen this year:

Angelus said: I'm a moron