terrorists and traitors have tried to take over ukraine

just like they did in libya and currently syria

i wish for the terrorists and traitors to be dealt with harshly

1 - Yet now EU is okay with providing  a $15B loan? How does that make sense? And I agree, Gazprom is not a very nice company. But they've actually been nicer to Ukraine as opposed to their other customers.

2 - Yanukovich is capable of anything? There's evidence out there suggesting that snipers were not his.

Russia is simply looking to secure access to the only warm water naval base they have to access western Europe, the Mediterranean, and Red Sea.

If the new Ukraine government was smart they would offer Russia a lease extension from 2047 to 2147 to keep the naval base there and guarantee Russian culture (language and other cultural norms) is supported by the government in exchange for a permanent withdrawl of occupying troops from the peninsula.

Right now the west seems to think that Russia has to lose. They have to look for a way for Russia to claim a victory.

1 - I admitted that they may not be legit. I just wanted to get your comment on them. And your comments were that it's a fake because one of the addresses is perhaps not plausible.

2 - Except during the Orange Revolution, protests didn't turn violent and crazy. And the circumstances were much different. The purpose of the Orange Revolution was not to oust a democratically elected government out of the office.

3 - No, you have no point. And do not distort my words. The understanding was that the base would be available until 2042 for sure, and probably until 2047 at least. That gives Russia plenty of time to assess what actions are to be taken. Moreover, the new government never said they would boot the fleet.

4 - No. Perhaps Call of Duty isn't the best source of current or past events? And exactly, the same loan, more money. Doesn't that strike you as odd? And don't make it sound like you had this expectation or understanding from the beginning. Your earlier words clearly show that the original tiny loan offer is how you think the EU rolls.

Bush administration didn't make up stuff, because they thought Iraq had WMD's, despite the fact that Iraq rejected these allegations, despite the fact that Iraq had complied with UN requests to allow inspectors, despite the fact that the UN, along with an earlier Iraqi defector, claimed that no WMD's could be found, despite the fact that integrity of whatever "evidence" that was forwarded was questioned, despite the fact that no WMD's were found post-conflict, instead of waiting for strong evidence for their claims to surface, despite the fact that, even if present, Iraqi WMD's would not be an imminent threat to the American public or interests. The only fascinating bit is that Bush and Cheney are not in a cell right now.

Edit: I originally accused you of justifying the Iraq war. Edited after I saw your other post. My apologies.

Well you've got about half of that wrong.

Though yeah.  

Bush really didn't make anything up.  He just used what was already there as a pretext simply because he had the naive belief that America had the ability to nation build.  I actually think he beleived there were WMD's simply because he wanted to.

In general though you aren't giving bush enough credit.  They didn't really comply with the UN inspectors fully, a couple of sketchy sources claimed WMDs and technically they did find WMDS.  Just not WMD's that are particularly worrying enough to start a war over.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/

2) The point is... it was upfront.

3)  I'm curious why you think the current understanding would remain effect?  I mean, you see a large part of the protestors as super anti-russian neo-nazi facists right?   Why would they go along with letting the russians stay there?

4)  Not sure what call of duty has to do with anything.  Russian bullying has been pretty consistant.

and yeah... the EU loan is still a tiny one to start off with.  With the promise of more.

Again look at the conditions.  It's still the same hundred million or so this year.

The rest, isn't until later, and has no gurtantee to matieralize.  The whole 15 billion number is just a bit of smoke and mirrors to show that an EU bailout could be as big as the russian ones to motivate voters when the Ukraine holds new elections.

Outside which, the Ukraine has been angling for $35 billion.  Nobodies offered that amount yet.

He wants land and his people under his control, so do they.
Military strategic locations.
Show the world they cant do anything, mother ruska is a power.
Keep a sphere of influence, keep a buffer state between rus and Eu.

Hilarious i saw a news thing with some ignorant ukraininas yelling at russian soldiers America is with us, I lol'd my ass of.

I dont know if you understand this, but Russia has no claim to it. If they want it, there is only two possible ways the international community will accept it.

1. Ukraine sells it to them for a price.

2. Democratic referendum.

I worry that this will escalate into something worse. It might be inevitable that democracy and comunism clash in war until one goes. China is beeing very clever staying out of this. I would rather comunism issues be solved with internal disputes. Thats not gonna happen until the oil/gas runs out though.

Zimmerman's handywork troubling us to this day. What a devious character.

I agree that the UN is a pawn of all 5, but especially the US. 

And at Sharu's comment. I hope it ends that peacefully. You never know though.