By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
Kasz216 on 06 March 2014
Edit Thread
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
ultima said:

 

1) You've given no reasons why the emails aren't legit, just why the people who made them made really stupid mistakes in faking them.

2)  Except during the Orange Revolution, the US and EU were upfront about it through people who trained non-violent protestors.   That's a whole lot different then what's going on here.

3) So you more or less made my point for me on the need for Sevestapool.  You say they can move the base, but that they couldn't move the base now, because it takes time and money.   So if the Kiev government decides to invaldiate the Russians and kick out the Black Fleet... then what?

 

4)  Yes.  Russia has been terrible to the Ukraine.   That should be a fairly undeniable statement.  Outside which, did you look at the EU offer?  It's the same as the Greece offer... and the previous offer basically.

Some money upfront with further conditions.

So, it doesn't change anything, accept putting out a big number that better explains that money will be there if the Ukrainian government actually reforms it's economy.

 

1 - I admitted that they may not be legit. I just wanted to get your comment on them. And your comments were that it's a fake because one of the addresses is perhaps not plausible.

2 - Except during the Orange Revolution, protests didn't turn violent and crazy. And the circumstances were much different. The purpose of the Orange Revolution was not to oust a democratically elected government out of the office.

3 - No, you have no point. And do not distort my words. The understanding was that the base would be available until 2042 for sure, and probably until 2047 at least. That gives Russia plenty of time to assess what actions are to be taken. Moreover, the new government never said they would boot the fleet.

4 - No. Perhaps Call of Duty isn't the best source of current or past events? And exactly, the same loan, more money. Doesn't that strike you as odd? And don't make it sound like you had this expectation or understanding from the beginning. Your earlier words clearly show that the original tiny loan offer is how you think the EU rolls.


2) The point is... it was upfront.

 

3)  I'm curious why you think the current understanding would remain effect?  I mean, you see a large part of the protestors as super anti-russian neo-nazi facists right?   Why would they go along with letting the russians stay there?

4)  Not sure what call of duty has to do with anything.  Russian bullying has been pretty consistant.

and yeah... the EU loan is still a tiny one to start off with.  With the promise of more.

Again look at the conditions.  It's still the same hundred million or so this year.

The rest, isn't until later, and has no gurtantee to matieralize.  The whole 15 billion number is just a bit of smoke and mirrors to show that an EU bailout could be as big as the russian ones to motivate voters when the Ukraine holds new elections.


Outside which, the Ukraine has been angling for $35 billion.  Nobodies offered that amount yet.