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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

"this bill protects religious freedom"

wow



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Around the Network
MonstaTruk said:
@The Fury:
 when they chose a route that's KNOWINGLY frowned upon,


If that word was meant to be Choose then I think I've found your issue right here. WELL there IS that AND your apparent MALFUNCTIONING shift KEY.



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ToxicJosh said:

I have a degree in philosophy. And I specialised in moral and political philosophy.

The comment I was referring to spoke of an objective, external morality that existed prior to human society. Show me a non-theistic philosopher who argued seriously for such a thing...

@Baron

I don't believe in gods, but I'm not a sociopath (someone who is incapable of empathy) and I don't believe that their is such a thing as an objective morality. In fact, the belief in god AS an arbiter of an objective morality is quite possibly the biggest flaw in religious belief.

Aside from, y'know, the whole 'magic man in the sky who hates the same people I do' thing...

That said, I do find it hilarious how unlike Christ the people who claim to worship him are, and I'll leave you all with a quote from Jesus about the evils of homosexuality: "..."

Despite his fairly pious Christianity, i'd argue that Kant came up with a decently objective morality based on a logical knowledge.



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@Mr Khan

I would disagree entirely. But then, I hated Kant (to the extent of always using the correct pronunciation).

The way Kant uses the universal law doesn't work. Because morality is subjective and because the way the universal laws can be worded.

Using abortion as an example (I'll go out on a limb and say that Kant would be opposed to it):
Law 1: All pregnancies ought to be terminated. [obviously no one would agree that this should be a universal law]
Law 2: Terminations ought to be available in the case where a pregnancy is unwanted. [I'd say yes, other people say no]

Kant's vision of the universal law also ignores context. Again in the case of abortion; what about if the preganancy is as a result of rape ,or incest? What if the life of the mother is in serious danger? What if there are serious congenital defects?

The universal law doesn't account for other factors, and when applied as a part of a universal law, it quickly becomes subjective, rather than objective.

In short, I think Kantian morality is wrong, and is nothing more than Kant being a religious apologist. Same as his theory of the phenomena and the noumena. In much the way of Descartes before him, Kant hits upon problems of reconciling his metaphysics with his religion and starts to make crazy leaps of logic in order to reinvent the Christian god.



mjk45 said:
Excellent letter , but he should have threatened to send in William Shatner .

Now, now she hasn't signed the bill.  No need to take things THAT far yet.

Plus, poor, poor Shatner if he has to sleep with that nasty old Govenor of AZ.



 

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Kane1389 said:
As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.

Please do tell me about this Manipulative Fascist LGBT Loby!



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Mummelmann said:

Russia has stolen most of the thunder for bad press surrounding the treatment of gay people and attempting to pass inhumane laws in the country, which is a shame since there should be a lot more focus on certain parts of the US, which considers itself the "land of the free" and a multicultural splendor, and they treat these people like animals.
Hatred towards gay people and atheists has taken over for some racial harassment, it seems, this is downright shameful and revolting.
I don't understand how the home of the brave can house so many people who are afraid of gay folks.
Religious freedom is fine; restrictions on basic societal services and rights based on religious attitude and hate is not.

It think some of it is a last ditch effort.  They are nearly surrounded in Arizona by same sex marriage.  To the west California, To the east, New Mexico.  To the Sound The nation of Mexico, and to the West North West Nevada (getting it in a year or so) and North Utah (sort of already on the books – just tied up in courts.)

They must know it’s symbolic.  Like how California banned blacks and white in marriage until the 1950s.  But it is a shameful and stupid thing the legislators are doing.  I am glad they are getting so much flack over it.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Zappykins said:
Kane1389 said:
As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.

Please do tell me about this Manipulative Fascist LGBT Loby!

He's already said he would support a bill that allowed denial to service to African Americans, that should tell us all we need to know about what kind of person he is.



Kane1389 said:
Aielyn said:
So you'd be fine with a bill that says that people can refuse to serve someone because they're black?


Well I dont think race and sexual preference and the same (as much as LGBT zealots like to compare themselves to black struggle in America) but without going much into detail or arguing about it, I'd say yes, I would be ok with that completely. I would also be ok with someone refusing to serve white people.  Im not saying I'd support their decision in any way, but I would supprt their right to make that decision.  Its their private business, they shouldn't be forced to serve anyone.

I don't think you understood the question. I didn't ask if you thought it was OK for a person to refuse to serve someone because they're black. I asked if you thought it was OK to have a bill that says that people can refuse to serve someone because they're black. That is, legislation explicitly written to say "you can refuse to serve someone because they're black".



curl-6 said:
Zappykins said:
Kane1389 said:
As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.

Please do tell me about this Manipulative Fascist LGBT Loby!

He's already said he would support a bill that allowed denial to service to African Americans, that should tell us all we need to know about what kind of person he is.

I said I would be OK with a bill that allowed denial to service anyone because of anything as long as its private buisness. But I guess that part didnt fit your tunnel vision so you left it out