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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

MonstaTruk said:
@The Fury:

Alright, the comment I made earlier about unfortunate events happening to someone...I didn't mean that all homosexuals been through something traumatic early on their life. What I was saying was that, the few people that HAVE been through something traumatic early in their lives, can and have made an indelible impression on those that are "without direction" and are "searching for something" in life, especially in a society where that childhood foundation of training from parents have been lost. But then you'll hear the thing of, "well I was BORN this way, I can't help it!" Look, I have 2 dogs. And yes, they are animals. But they can act like a part of my family, like if someone were to come have dinner at my house. I TRAINED my dogs to wait till I say it's okay for them to eat. If I don't, they'll sit there and wait. You see, there is a DEFAULT set of actions that would take place IF I DID NOTHING, IF I WASN'T PROACTIVE. Yes, society can raise kids, but they'll turn out like...they'll turn out, who knows. OR...you can mold them into what you want to mold them into. To say, as a human being, that "I just can't"...*sighs*. I would rather that person just say to me that they don't want to, that's more understandable.

As far as what's RIGHT or WRONG, come on. You all KNOW what's right and wrong, we all KNOW. And I'm here to tell you, you WILL NOT find peace within yourself until you fully embrace, to yourself, what YOU know to be RIGHT. That's a personal thing. I can't tell you what you know to be RIGHT, and nobody for DAMN sure is gonna convince me how I'm thinking is WRONG. I don't make the rules, they've been made WAY before you and me. It is what it is...

No offense, but you really come across like someone who tries to convince himself more then others.

Besides, Human sacrifice was RIGHT at some point in time, so was selling family members into slavery, and in our time in places it is RIGHT to marry a girl to the man who raped her.

 "you WILL NOT find peace within yourself until you fully embrace, to yourself, what YOU know to be RIGHT"

 That actually is what gay people want to do, embracing what they know is right for them.

 



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Aielyn said:
Kane1389 said:
As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.

So you'd be fine with a bill that says that people can refuse to serve someone because they're black?


Well I dont think race and sexual preference and the same (as much as LGBT zealots like to compare themselves to black struggle in America) but without going much into detail or arguing about it, I'd say yes, I would be ok with that completely. I would also be ok with someone refusing to serve white people.  Im not saying I'd support their decision in any way, but I would supprt their right to make that decision.  Its their private business, they shouldn't be forced to serve anyone. 



KylieDog said:
The Bill is wrong, but don't shop owners have the right to turn away anyone anyway?

quite the opposite in america.  when a business opens their door it is too the public the business cannot discrimnate against race, religion, or sex.  the only way to get around that is the "club" clause and a membership fee is required.  this allows a very small subset of businesses to operate as things like "women's only gym".   but any business that opens their door without a membership fee and club designation is required to operate without discrimination.



If passed it wont take long for it be taken away becuse im sure any business that turns away someone for being gay will be avoided and lose money



Russia has stolen most of the thunder for bad press surrounding the treatment of gay people and attempting to pass inhumane laws in the country, which is a shame since there should be a lot more focus on certain parts of the US, which considers itself the "land of the free" and a multicultural splendor, and they treat these people like animals.
Hatred towards gay people and atheists has taken over for some racial harassment, it seems, this is downright shameful and revolting.
I don't understand how the home of the brave can house so many people who are afraid of gay folks.
Religious freedom is fine; restrictions on basic societal services and rights based on religious attitude and hate is not.



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MonstaTruk said:
@The Fury:

Well, when you say I disrespect the LBGT community, I guess I kinda do, unknowingly. Here's the thing: there are pushes that that community has made strides in, the main one being legal same-sex marriage. Which, I'm in support of that. If I was a pastor, I wouldn't marry a same-sex couple, but...moving on. It's the other "movements" that I have a problem with. Isn't there an LBGT video game convention? Is that really necessary? Should black people have an African American Fighting Tournament, or a Phillipino gaming sponsorship group? Equal rights, I'm with that. Separate g*y organizations for the NRA, for gaming, for the lottery...what is this?

Anybody can/should live like they want to. Just don't expect everyone to suddenly shower that person with praise, when they chose a route that's KNOWINGLY frowned upon, in certain communities. Over here, a black person, in 2014, can still get hung in certain parts of the US. And in certain parts, a white person can get shot just by driving down certain streets. It doesn't matter who the president is, or what year it is. You can't MAKE people like something/someone. My suggestion would be to stay where you feel comfortable, around people you feel comfortable with. But you're not going to CHANGE certain people...

A pastor wouldn't marry a same sex couple, we've had this issue in the UK before and Vicors have said no to it and people accept it, forcing them to do it is wrong. Maybe the LBGT Video game conference isn't nessecary but it is in their right to have it. If I recall there is a TV channel called BET in the US is there not? If people feel discriminated in those organisations they do go somewhere they can feel comfortable and that's in their own community but it is this lack of trying to change people that is the problem.

I believe people can be changed, well a person can. The human mind is opening to reason, if we can't be changed we'd still believe the earth is flat. I'd like to understand why people in certain parts hate others just because they are differ in an obvious way but also to try and show them such hate is anti-progressive. If they stay the way they are, things will never improve ot change for the better includes their relationships with other communities or the world.



Hmm, pie.

The law is a boondoggle, a waste of taxpayers time and money to distract from the real issues.

American politics in a nutshell, unfortunately. Both parties love to fight over crap like this instead of addressing substantive things like employment, immigration, or inequality.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

ToxicJosh said:
Doesn't believe in God. Claims to know an objective system of morality.

I'd suggest you crack open a few philosophy books if you think this is some kind of logical hurdle.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

ToxicJosh said:
Doesn't believe in God. Claims to know an objective system of morality.


So,... Everybody who doesn't believe in God is a sociopath?



Mr Khan said:
ToxicJosh said:
Doesn't believe in God. Claims to know an objective system of morality.

I'd suggest you crack open a few philosophy books if you think this is some kind of logical hurdle.

I have a degree in philosophy. And I specialised in moral and political philosophy.

The comment I was referring to spoke of an objective, external morality that existed prior to human society. Show me a non-theistic philosopher who argued seriously for such a thing...

@Baron

I don't believe in gods, but I'm not a sociopath (someone who is incapable of empathy) and I don't believe that their is such a thing as an objective morality. In fact, the belief in god AS an arbiter of an objective morality is quite possibly the biggest flaw in religious belief.

Aside from, y'know, the whole 'magic man in the sky who hates the same people I do' thing...

That said, I do find it hilarious how unlike Christ the people who claim to worship him are, and I'll leave you all with a quote from Jesus about the evils of homosexuality: "..."