Oh dear, the Sony bias in the OP is very strong. I think a lot of people are going to be eating humble pie when the XBox starts stretching it's legs. Microsoft are working on their SDK's and we are already hearing developers say that the graphical power is much improved. You can quote me in a year if XBox One hasn't made up any deficiencies compared to PS4.
They are far too weak, some even cannot handle 1080p. The problem the lack of a discrete GPU which creates a huge performance gap to modern PC gaming, look at the bad quality Titanfall X1 as an example. No sane PC gamer would recommend buying an AMD APU, you would go with an i5/7 and a separate GPU instead, even on low budget systems. And both PS4 / X1 are just very cheap and low cost PC's, hardware-wise, this is why Square Enix can now effortlessly port over Final Fantasy games.
Danman27 said:
Yep, you're right. If you take away the fact that this thing would break really soon, use more power, not perform as well, and probably have a failing gpu, you're right. A cheap PSU isn't really what you want to go for. Those old cpu's aren't as strong, and it can't be assumed that they'll overclock that high. Also, you're lowballing on prices, considering the cheapest computer I can find within your perameters is $170 on ebay. And the cheapest 6950 I can currently find on ebay is $200. Plus the ram would be very slow, consifering you'd be using ddr2, and ddr2 ram is also rediculously expensive. I never said that my $1000 pc doesn't beat by a lot, but the ps4 can offer similar performance in some games. |
By Cheap I mean something like an "Antec Neo Eco 520C". - Which is Seasonic based and can be had for about $50-$60 if you play your cards right.
Cheap doesn't always mean sub-par quality or unreliability, besides consoles have *always* been known never to have failures, right, right? (YLOD and RROD comes to mind.)
As for the CPU a Core 2 Quad running at 3.6ghz (I am yet to see a G0 stepping not achieve this.) is more potent than the latest AMD FX quad-cores, they are old, but certainly have aged well and are far superior to the 8-core Jaguars.
As for the Radepon 6950's, well. I sold mine for $100 each a couple months back (As my 3x 7970's wen't into my AMD system and I got 4x R9 290's in my main machine thus making my 6950's redundant, did throw some benchies on my wall before flogging them off.), most of the local swap meets sell them for about $100, Ebay isn't always the cheapest way to get hardware. - If you bid aggressively on Ebay, nothing says you can't get it for under $100.
Lets not forget that if you can manage to grab a reference design Radeon 6950, you can also unlock it into a 6970.
And who says you have to use DDR2? With the Core 2 series, it was chipset dependant and not CPU dependant on the type of Ram you can use as Intel had not integrated the memory controller on-die at that point in time, thus you can use DDR3 and/or DDR2, some DDR1 motherboards would also accept the Core 2 processors as well.
But nice try with that attempt to spin.
I would also like to see the PS4 render games at 1440P, 1440P monitors are getting stupidly cheap these days, you can get them for as low as $350 AUD now. (I assume $300 USD.)
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
Pemalite said:
By Cheap I mean something like an "Antec Neo Eco 520C". - Which is Seasonic based and can be had for about $50-$60 if you play your cards right. |
So, everything you just said was solely hypothetical, when I supported my argument with facts. What I got your argument is that you sold your gpu's for a crappy price, and someone got a really good deal.
here's what I'm seeing for price.
So, with those components, we're already at higher than $400. And we've still got case, hard drive, disc drive, cooler, and OS (if you want to include it). So, I'd predict your little build costing around $600-$700. And, that build would perform worse than a ps4.
| Danman27 said: So, everything you just said was solely hypothetical, when I supported my argument with facts. What I got your argument is that you sold your gpu's for a crappy price, and someone got a really good deal. here's what I'm seeing for price. So, with those components, we're already at higher than $400. And we've still got case, hard drive, disc drive, cooler, and OS (if you want to include it). So, I'd predict your little build costing around $600-$700. And, that build would perform worse than a ps4. |
In one ear, out the other, ignoring logic.
Just because Ebay has it listed, doesn't mean it's the cheapest price you're gonna' get.
Also, that's a horrible Powersupply unit.
And who in their right mind would pay for ECC Ram on a desktop platform? Why would you even suggest such a thing? (Farther proof you know little about Ram?)
The rest, you might as well ignore, buy a complete system.
As for the Radeon 6950 prices... On an Australian "swap/buy/sell" forum called Overclockers Australia....
(You may need to sign up to verify the prices.)
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1114333&highlight=Radeon+6950
$120.
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1112501&highlight=Radeon+6950
$100
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1109544&highlight=Radeon+6950
$125
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1106974&highlight=Radeon+6950
$100
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1103620&highlight=Radeon+6950
$100
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1096697&highlight=Radeon+6950
$120
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1087865&highlight=Radeon+6950
$140 with aftermarket cooler.
$120 with a stock cooler.
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1087024&highlight=Radeon+6950
$125 each.
Keep in mind, this is in AUD, thus it would cheaper when converted to USD.
All listings within the last 6 months.
Antec Neo Eco:
$50 with rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030
Core 2 Quad PC:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-545-Intel-Core2-Quad-Q6600-6GB-640GB-Wifi-Win7-Desktop-PC-/111285072231?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item19e91b7167
Or perhaps, an Athlon 2 x4 or Phenom 2 x4 would fit the bill?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Pavilion-P6520Y-AMD-Athlon-II-X4-2-9GHz-500GB-HDD-6GB-RAM-Windows-7-/321325899265?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item4ad0841e01
If the motherboard ever craps out, you can buy a cheap $40 Asrock board, drop in a Phenom 2 x6 6-core/AMD FX processor and overclock it to 4ghz or more I've got a 1045T Phenom 2 x6 laying around up for sale and an Asrock Fatality 990FX motherboard to go with it for only $200, could probably throw in a 1tb drive, 8gb of ram and a Radeon 6850 too for another fitty.
So you know I am not kidding.
http://i.imgur.com/XWElQIM.jpg
$222
Then Say, $110 GPU, that's $332, add in a $65 PSU, that's $397.
Use SetFSB or Clockgen to overclock and done.
You also get free online, cheaper games, which means in just a couple of years and lots of game purchases it can pay for itself multiple times over.
Nothing else to see here folks, he was proven wrong, again.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
| Pemalite said:
In one ear, out the other, ignoring logic. |
Didn't really look much into and was actually trying to find the best offers I could to further prove you wrong. Also, why are you trying to pass off forums as retail? Another question. Whose going to by from an australain and American website for a computer build? Another question. How is it comparable using 6 year old outdated hardware to modern more powerful hardware? Wait! I've got another one too! How is it fair comparing new parts to used parts?
Another problem with EVERY one of your points so far, not everyone is in YOUR situation. If the motherboard craps out, most people can't just pop in a 1045t, because most people don't just own a 1045t. So congrats, on those 6950's you've found. You've managed to find a bunch of people that hate making a proper amount of money on things, because the 6950 has a market value of about $200 used right now. You're also failing to mention that with sony's non-free online, you're getting a ton of free games with it. Since I've gotten the ps4, I've gotten outlast, don't starve, resogun, contrast, and a warframe DLC for free. Those add up to more than a $50 value, and that's excluding the ps3 and vita game I get with it psplus as well. Also, show me how this build is possible with the websites provided. I would love to see someone use your weird forums (not even sure how a transaction would work tbh) in Australia, AND can also order parts from the American Ebay and Newegg. So good job, you've proven that you can build a PC for less than $400 that uses all used and outdated parts, and is weaker than a ps4, and that would only be possible if you can get parts from Australia and the US. You deserve a big round of applause. A solution that doesn't work for 99.9% of people isn't really a solution.
| Danman27 said: Another question. Whose going to by from an australain and American website for a computer build? |
I would, because I am Australian? One has to assume if the Aussies are doing it, then other countries have similar avenues.
And as a consumer, you should always "Shop around" for the best possible price.
Ebay shouldn't be your last stop, they're over-priced on computer hardware, a quick look on Ebay Australia and they have a Core i7 3930K (Same as my CPU in my main machine) for $670 AUD, that's roughly $100 more than what I paid 2 years ago.
A second hand one is bidding at just over $400.
| Danman27 said:
|
I think that would be obvious, if not, contemplate on it a little longer.
| Danman27 said:
|
Well. You could buy a second hand Playstation 3 and try and run Playstation 4 games... Oh wait, you can't.
The PC you can and a Radeon 6950 2Gb can play a high majority of games fine at 1440P@30fps. - The Playstation 4 isn't capable of that.
It's fair because it's an option the consumer has.
And more "modern" doesn't mean it's faster.
A Phenom 2 of the equivalant core and clockspeed as the AMD FX series, which despite the FX being newer, is actually slower. - So much for progress, huh?
| Danman27 said:
|
It's a situation that can be replicated by many, if they "shopped around" and looked at alternate and thus by extension... cheaper avenues for purchases, I can't afford everything I own by buying everything at market prices can I?
I do admit, I am in a different situation than most as I have what is generally considered... High-end hardware coming out of every orifice.
But, it's an option and having an abundant amount of choice when it's something that's going to cost you money, can't be a bad thing.
| Danman27 said: So congrats, on those 6950's you've found. You've managed to find a bunch of people that hate making a proper amount of money on things, because the 6950 has a market value of about $200 used right now. |
Same could be said that you're willing to pay inflated over-the-top prices, but your money is your own, if you like to waste it, who am I to complain?
| Danman27 said: You're also failing to mention that with sony's non-free online, you're getting a ton of free games with it. Since I've gotten the ps4, I've gotten outlast, don't starve, resogun, contrast, and a warframe DLC for free. Those add up to more than a $50 value, and that's excluding the ps3 and vita game I get with it psplus as well. |
There are hundreds of free games on the PC, where you don't need to worry about a paywall.
But that's cheaper so it doesn't apply, right?
| Danman27 said: Also, show me how this build is possible with the websites provided. I would love to see someone use your weird forums (not even sure how a transaction would work tbh) in Australia, AND can also order parts from the American Ebay and Newegg. So good job, you've proven that you can build a PC for less than $400 that uses all used and outdated parts, and is weaker than a ps4, and that would only be possible if you can get parts from Australia and the US. You deserve a big round of applause. A solution that doesn't work for 99.9% of people isn't really a solution. |
You have access to the largest repository of information known to man-kind, you are currently utilising a forum, yet you are insinuating you're incapable of using another? Do your own research before criticising others, I posted the relevant information, the rest is your problem.
Also, Australians can't order from Newegg. Well. Not directly.
You need to use drop shipping, where you order the hardware off Newegg, then get it sent to a friend/relative's address in the USA then ship it to Australia, the reverse can work too.
As for being weaker than the PS4? Hardly, this is coming from someone who insisted that Core 2 processors HAD to use DDR2 Ram, then later suggested ECC Ram, I'll take whatever your opinion is in regards to hardware and performance with a several ton pile of salt and possibly a rubber chicken.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
As this is very obvious, I think its important to remind everyone.
The instant you have to provide links to discount parts you already lost a vast majority of the gamer audience.
Doesn't matter if you can build a rig that can out perform a ps4 at around 400$. All of the other information that makes it possible, such as knowledge of optimizing a rig and getting a good price to performance ratio, are taken for granted. And all of that drives up the cost to the consumer. Its also completely extraneous to the gaming hobby, so again that plug in play advantage decreases the platforms opportunity cost.
When PCs are more price effective for the mainstream, then consoles will be replaced but until then it doesn't matter how many links one posts.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
| Pemalite said:
There are hundreds of free games on the PC, where you don't need to worry about a paywall.
|
I'll reply to your last paragraph first, since you've replied in the least organized way possibly. Yes, I am incapable of using that forum, as it's ONLY available to Aussies. Maybe you should have checked that out. Also, ever single thing you've stated is still only relevant to your situation. You can't order from newegg, FACT. Most Americans don't have friends in Australia, and vice versa. And even if they did, most people wouldn't think "I should go to a non-retail site to find a specific item I'm look for. And I think it should be from a different country too!" Also, one has to ask. How much does it cost? And that my friend, is $46 american for a USPS flat rate box shipping an item under 4 pounds, or we could do under 20 for $60. So, now the price is inceased another $60. Good job. And that's assuming you have an American friend/relative willing to do this. I know you probably do, but MOST PEOPLE DON'T. I didn't say it had to use ddr2, most motherboards of that tupe do use it though. And I also find it funny that you're bring up this point AFTER linking me to a intel 2 quad pc that does indeed use ddr2. You also have no clue what take it with a grain of salt means. It means that the statement is so unlikely that it should be thought of as almost microscopic. So you saying a 3 ton pile of salt means my opinion is very significant... Thank you.
To your first reply that I didn't delete because it was already adressed in the above paragraph.
Just what? I don't even know what point you're trying to prove with this one. Also, it was the first gen of fx that sucked. The second one is actually really good.
To your second reply. Once again. Just what? You're right, your situation can be replicated. If I go buy a 1045t cpu, and leave it sitting around for a few months, I can just throw it on in a PC like I never even bought i-... oh wait, that makes zero sense. Just because you have the part, doesn't mean it doesn't factor into the cost. If you were building a PC to sell to someone, would you take out the price of the CPU because you already had it just laying around in your house? No.
To you third reply. False, because the market value is way higher than the ones you linked me to. Finding 6 flukes over a six month period isn't doesn't equal the market value.
To your fourth reply. Did you get actual full high quality games for free? Or are we talking browser games? Yes, I know there have been free games on the PC, you seem to forget that I'm also a PC gamer. Most of them are really crappy though. Are there a few good ones like TF2? Yes, but most aren't.
| Danman27 said:
|
False.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropshipping
There are several business that attend to that market.
| Danman27 said:
|
Wrong. Although Piledriver is an improvement over Bulldozer, it's still a dog of a processor.
I would know I have had both an FX 8120, FX 8320, Phenom 2 x6 1090T, Phenom 2 x6 1045T.
The Phenom 2's are faster at the same clock and core counts as the FX, which is ironic because the Core 2's were faster than the Phenom 2's at the same clock and core count.
However, with the Phenom 2, you can increase the IPC by a good 10-15% by increasing the NB clock.
A Phenom 2 x6 @ 4ghz and a 3ghz NB clock is faster than my AMD FX 8320 @ 4.4ghz.
So you know I am not lying about me having the second generation FX: http://i.imgur.com/FhbUgAe.png
| Danman27 said: To you third reply. False, because the market value is way higher than the ones you linked me to. Finding 6 flukes over a six month period isn't doesn't equal the market value. To your fourth reply. Did you get actual full high quality games for free? Or are we talking browser games? Yes, I know there have been free games on the PC, you seem to forget that I'm also a PC gamer. Most of them are really crappy though. Are there a few good ones like TF2? Yes, but most aren't. |
6 flukes? Really? They were all the last sales of the 6950 line, didn't even bother to look at the 6970's, it wasn't even cherry picked.
I could post a "Wanted to buy" and probably get a response within the hour.
As for free games, calling most of them "crappy" really is personal opinion and is in no way a factual response, everyone has different taste and opinions on games, some of the most popular games of *all* time are free and only on the PC.
like League of Legends, DOTA 2 might as well be free considering the plethora of free keys given out.
Left 4 Dead wen't free, Half Life 2 was free for a good half decade for Radeon owners.
Yep only "crappy" games indeed.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
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