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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Debunking the Myth that Next Gen Consoles are too weak

Pemalite said:
Danman27 said:


You can't order from newegg, FACT. Most Americans don't have friends in Australia, and vice versa. And even if they did, most people wouldn't think "I should go to a non-retail site to find a specific item I'm look for.

False.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropshipping
There are several business that attend to that market.

Danman27 said:



Just what? I don't even know what point you're trying to prove with this one. Also, it was the first gen of fx that sucked. The second one is actually really good.

Wrong. Although Piledriver is an improvement over Bulldozer, it's still a dog of a processor.
I would know I have had both an FX 8120, FX 8320, Phenom 2 x6 1090T, Phenom 2 x6 1045T.
The Phenom 2's are faster at the same clock and core counts as the FX, which is ironic because the Core 2's were faster than the Phenom 2's at the same clock and core count.
However, with the Phenom 2, you can increase the IPC by a good 10-15% by increasing the NB clock.

A Phenom 2 x6 @ 4ghz and a 3ghz NB clock is faster than my AMD FX 8320 @ 4.4ghz.
So you know I am not lying about me having the second generation FX: http://i.imgur.com/FhbUgAe.png

Danman27 said:

To you third reply. False, because the market value is way higher than the ones you linked me to. Finding 6 flukes over a six month period isn't doesn't equal the market value. 

To your fourth reply. Did you get actual full high quality games for free? Or are we talking browser games? Yes, I know there have been free games on the PC, you seem to forget that I'm also a PC gamer. Most of them are really crappy though. Are there a few good ones like TF2? Yes, but most aren't. 

6 flukes? Really? They were all the last sales of the 6950 line, didn't even bother to look at the 6970's, it wasn't even cherry picked.
I could post a "Wanted to buy" and probably get a response within the hour.

As for free games, calling most of them "crappy" really is personal opinion and is in no way a factual response, everyone has different taste and opinions on games, some of the most popular games of *all* time are free and only on the PC.
like League of Legends, DOTA 2 might as well be free considering the plethora of free keys given out.
Left 4 Dead wen't free, Half Life 2 was free for a good half decade for Radeon owners.
Yep only "crappy" games indeed.


Those dropshipping business didn't really come up with that much that I searched for. 

The fx series is meant to run at a higher clock than the phenoms. Yes clock for clock, phenoms may be stronger, but they also run at a lower clock. 

I also didn't say only crappy, I said most of them are. And yes, 6 flukes. When you consider the thousands that are sold every year second hand, 6 isn't that much. And you were the one that said these are the 6950s posted over the past 6 months. Your words not mine. Maybe you should stop changing your story. I'm also not sure why either arcitechture is being brought up, considering that the ps4 uses neither. And it's distracting from the argument that most people don't just have CPU's laying around to use whenever they please.



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Danman27 said:

The fx series is meant to run at a higher clock than the phenoms. Yes clock for clock, phenoms may be stronger, but they also run at a lower clock. 

I also didn't say only crappy, I said most of them are. And yes, 6 flukes. When you consider the thousands that are sold every year second hand, 6 isn't that much. And you were the one that said these are the 6950s posted over the past 6 months. Your words not mine. Maybe you should stop changing your story. I'm also not sure why either arcitechture is being brought up, considering that the ps4 uses neither. And it's distracting from the argument that most people don't just have CPU's laying around to use whenever they please.

True the FX is "meant" to run at a higher frequency, but you still need a significant amount of clock headroom to beat a Phenom 2.
A Phenom 2 x6 is pretty much guarenteed to hit 4ghz at 1.45v.
If you're lucky you can hit 4.2ghz at 1.48 volt, depending on the motherboard and CPU.

My FX 8320 only manages 4.4ghz, the CPU that it replaced, the FX 8120 managed 4.8ghz and managed to out-perform the 8320. (And that's a 1st gen chip!)

Considering Australia's population and the sheer amount of GPU's being sold second hand in an enthusiast forum, then yes, it's a fair amount and far from a fluke.

Also, you need to point out where I am changing my story, especially if you're going to make such ludicrous claims.

The whole argument was, "you can't build a PC for $400 that competes with the PS4".
Not only did I prove that wrong, but you have multiple options in order to do so.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Danman27 said:

The fx series is meant to run at a higher clock than the phenoms. Yes clock for clock, phenoms may be stronger, but they also run at a lower clock. 

I also didn't say only crappy, I said most of them are. And yes, 6 flukes. When you consider the thousands that are sold every year second hand, 6 isn't that much. And you were the one that said these are the 6950s posted over the past 6 months. Your words not mine. Maybe you should stop changing your story. I'm also not sure why either arcitechture is being brought up, considering that the ps4 uses neither. And it's distracting from the argument that most people don't just have CPU's laying around to use whenever they please.

True the FX is "meant" to run at a higher frequency, but you still need a significant amount of clock headroom to beat a Phenom 2.
A Phenom 2 x6 is pretty much guarenteed to hit 4ghz at 1.45v.
If you're lucky you can hit 4.2ghz at 1.48 volt, depending on the motherboard and CPU.

My FX 8320 only manages 4.4ghz, the CPU that it replaced, the FX 8120 managed 4.8ghz and managed to out-perform the 8320. (And that's a 1st gen chip!)

Considering Australia's population and the sheer amount of GPU's being sold second hand in an enthusiast forum, then yes, it's a fair amount and far from a fluke.

Also, you need to point out where I am changing my story, especially if you're going to make such ludicrous claims.

The whole argument was, "you can't build a PC for $400 that competes with the PS4".
Not only did I prove that wrong, but you have multiple options in order to do so.

Well, now, once again you're changing your story. You never said competes, you said beats. Competes with is a very loose term. Does it mean it can play any game the other can?  You also originally said that those were the 6950s for that price that were posted on that forum in the last 6 months, heavily implying there weren't other examples. And yes I tried to use those forums, but once again, you need to be a Aussie to use them. And once again, you keep using situations that apply almost exclusively to you. And no, you still haven't shown me a build that competes, considering every build you've shown me thus far would end up being a lot more expensive than a ps4, unless you're in one of the most unique situations out there. Also not to mention that this buiild would cost a lot more now than your initial. Considering you've slowly been making the parts better over time, but never adjusting the price. 



Danman27 said:

Well, now, once again you're changing your story. You never said competes, you said beats. Competes with is a very loose term. Does it mean it can play any game the other can?


Clasping at straws.
That's not "changing my story".
You're side stepping the entire issue.

Danman27 said:

You also originally said that those were the 6950s for that price that were posted on that forum in the last 6 months, heavily implying there weren't other examples. And yes I tried to use those forums, but once again, you need to be a Aussie to use them. And once again, you keep using situations that apply almost exclusively to you. And no, you still haven't shown me a build that competes, considering every build you've shown me thus far would end up being a lot more expensive than a ps4, unless you're in one of the most unique situations out there. Also not to mention that this buiild would cost a lot more now than your initial. Considering you've slowly been making the parts better over time, but never adjusting the price.

Keep thinking that.
 



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

RAWR I have 12GB in my PC and over 5TB HD with an SSD...who gives a crap? I don't. Only game that it seemed to help was BF3. Made OC'ing hell with 4GB,4GB,2GB,2GB in all four slots.

Laptop users render steam survey hogwash.

PS4 is a beast, it reminds me of the Dreamcast as far as power and its place in time. Only difference is Dreamcast couldn't sell and this PS4 has tremendous sales, and I get to finally enjoy a system that will dominate and be my preferred console which has only been NES, and PS1 in the past. I wish Sega CD took off and sold more, or Dreamcast, or even PS3 outselling Wii. PS4 is awesome for what it is though, but it still has a long road ahead of it.



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Pemalite said:
Danman27 said:

Well, now, once again you're changing your story. You never said competes, you said beats. Competes with is a very loose term. Does it mean it can play any game the other can?


Clasping at straws.
That's not "changing my story".
You're side stepping the entire issue.

Danman27 said:

You also originally said that those were the 6950s for that price that were posted on that forum in the last 6 months, heavily implying there weren't other examples. And yes I tried to use those forums, but once again, you need to be a Aussie to use them. And once again, you keep using situations that apply almost exclusively to you. And no, you still haven't shown me a build that competes, considering every build you've shown me thus far would end up being a lot more expensive than a ps4, unless you're in one of the most unique situations out there. Also not to mention that this buiild would cost a lot more now than your initial. Considering you've slowly been making the parts better over time, but never adjusting the price.

Keep thinking that.
 


I'm not sidestepping the issue, I'm point out flaws in your argument. And yes, you're right, I'll keep thinking facts. And the fact of the matter is that your build that "competes" uses crappy old parts, that are more expensive, power consuming, and weaker. You are the one that went off on the massive fx vs phenom tangent that had nothing to do with the original argument. Yes, your idea is a very unique situation. I want you to call one of those guys selling a 6950, and tell him you'll buy it, but you want it shipped to the US. I bet they'll refuse. When you say "keep thinking that" you're making a very weak attempt to delegitamize my arguments. I've priced out your builds, and you were flat out wrong every time. So I'm going to assume you're clasping at straws now. Good job derailing a light hearted thread though. Give yourself a pat on the back. 



Danman27 said:


I'm not sidestepping the issue, I'm point out flaws in your argument. And yes, you're right, I'll keep thinking facts. And the fact of the matter is that your build that "competes" uses crappy old parts, that are more expensive, power consuming, and weaker. You are the one that went off on the massive fx vs phenom tangent that had nothing to do with the original argument. Yes, your idea is a very unique situation. I want you to call one of those guys selling a 6950, and tell him you'll buy it, but you want it shipped to the US. I bet they'll refuse. When you say "keep thinking that" you're making a very weak attempt to delegitamize my arguments. I've priced out your builds, and you were flat out wrong every time. So I'm going to assume you're clasping at straws now. Good job derailing a light hearted thread though. Give yourself a pat on the back. 


Would it kill you to use paragraphs?

Those "old parts" are certainly not weaker than a Playstation 4 a Radeon 6950 2Gb can run Metro at 1440P@30fps, can the Playstation 4? Nope.

My situation isn't unique, every Australian can do the same, why should I care if you're ignorant about viable alternatives in your location overseas? Is that my problem? Heck no, stop pretending it is.
As for being proven wrong, simple mathematics says otherwise, I posted links, with prices and it came to just under $400 AUD (The PS4 costs more than that in Australia at $550), perhaps after work when I care enough, I'll do a build based in the USA, little good will it do as you're pretty much determined to discredit anyone who proves you wrong.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Danman27 said:


I'm not sidestepping the issue, I'm point out flaws in your argument. And yes, you're right, I'll keep thinking facts. And the fact of the matter is that your build that "competes" uses crappy old parts, that are more expensive, power consuming, and weaker. You are the one that went off on the massive fx vs phenom tangent that had nothing to do with the original argument. Yes, your idea is a very unique situation. I want you to call one of those guys selling a 6950, and tell him you'll buy it, but you want it shipped to the US. I bet they'll refuse. When you say "keep thinking that" you're making a very weak attempt to delegitamize my arguments. I've priced out your builds, and you were flat out wrong every time. So I'm going to assume you're clasping at straws now. Good job derailing a light hearted thread though. Give yourself a pat on the back. 


Would it kill you to use paragraphs?

Those "old parts" are certainly not weaker than a Playstation 4 a Radeon 6950 2Gb can run Metro at 1440P@30fps, can the Playstation 4? Nope.

My situation isn't unique, every Australian can do the same, why should I care if you're ignorant about viable alternatives in your location overseas? Is that my problem? Heck no, stop pretending it is.
As for being proven wrong, simple mathematics says otherwise, I posted links, with prices and it came to just under $400 AUD (The PS4 costs more than that in Australia at $550), perhaps after work when I care enough, I'll do a build based in the USA, little good will it do as you're pretty much determined to discredit anyone who proves you wrong.


Yeah, you did, with resources that are only available to you. And your options are NOT viable. They simply aren't. Try to sign into the forums using american accounts. That not an option you just think of either. It's not ignorance. You also changed your parts from the $400 build. And saying that 6950 can run 30fps @1440p doesn't tell the whole story. First off, which metro? Second, what settings are you running at? I have a card stronger than the 6950 (a 7950) and it barely runs 30fps maxed out at 30fps. So you're CLEARLY downgrading basically everything to get those settings. It's also a dumb comparison considering the ps4 doesn't have either of those games. Here's a better one. http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/ps4-making-sacrifices-to-run-1080p-30916939/?page=3

And I'm talking about your unique situation with having parts just laying around. And no, no almost no one is in that situation. And at your first remark? I've been using paragraphs. But why would I when my response is only 6 lines long?  



Pemalite said:
Danman27 said:


I'm not sidestepping the issue, I'm point out flaws in your argument. And yes, you're right, I'll keep thinking facts. And the fact of the matter is that your build that "competes" uses crappy old parts, that are more expensive, power consuming, and weaker. You are the one that went off on the massive fx vs phenom tangent that had nothing to do with the original argument. Yes, your idea is a very unique situation. I want you to call one of those guys selling a 6950, and tell him you'll buy it, but you want it shipped to the US. I bet they'll refuse. When you say "keep thinking that" you're making a very weak attempt to delegitamize my arguments. I've priced out your builds, and you were flat out wrong every time. So I'm going to assume you're clasping at straws now. Good job derailing a light hearted thread though. Give yourself a pat on the back. 


Would it kill you to use paragraphs?

Those "old parts" are certainly not weaker than a Playstation 4 a Radeon 6950 2Gb can run Metro at 1440P@30fps, can the Playstation 4? Nope.

My situation isn't unique, every Australian can do the same, why should I care if you're ignorant about viable alternatives in your location overseas? Is that my problem? Heck no, stop pretending it is.
As for being proven wrong, simple mathematics says otherwise, I posted links, with prices and it came to just under $400 AUD (The PS4 costs more than that in Australia at $550), perhaps after work when I care enough, I'll do a build based in the USA, little good will it do as you're pretty much determined to discredit anyone who proves you wrong.


You could not be more wrong buddy.  The PS4's GPU offers about the same performance as a 7870 (Which destroys the 6950).

I am fairly familiar with how much things cost in Austrailia, and so I will admit that the price between the PS4 and a comparible PC in AU is closer than it is in the U.S.  But sorry, the PS4 still costs A LOT less.  Oh and in America a comparible PC would cost about $600 (With Windows) new.  Used parts don't count bud.