Nintendo followed the DS market with the Wii.. if you look at the DS it has a shit ton of crappy brain games and pet sims ..but it also has some (most) of the best games ive played in years,  can you imagine going back to a GBA? i can't even get into psp games and i try nerely every A+ game, i still play my 360 but not nerely as much as my wii, because its fun, and back too what i was thinking... Quality 3rd party games have sold on wii and more will be coming. wii is still young. but the crappy games will always be there... just like ps2

Onyxmeth said: The two games I mentioned are on the PS2. Sony does have quality control issues. The PS2 I feel did not require any sort of quality control because 3rd parties wanted to develop for it, and develop big. I don't feel like i've heard enough from third parties to suggest they feel the same about the Wii. Most of what i've been hearing is that third parties underestimated the potential and will now begin to get their feet wet. I haven't heard too many saying they are diving in. I did not state shovelware is a new phenomenon. I said this amount of shovelware is new for Nintendo. I did not mention previously that I meant since the GC and the N64. My point was that the Wii is seeing no better third party support than the last console outside of shovelware. I've already backed this up with numbers. I feel like they lost third parties for a different reason. I feel the cartridges were to blame. The development costs were high and the profit margin low. I feel this is why Sony acquired Squaresoft and the majority support from third parties. Obviously we differ in this opinion.

The ps2 probably did not need quality control for the ps2, because as you said, 3rd parties wanted to develop games for them. However, this was largely a product of the ps1 being such a big success. A ps2 to "wii2" comparison would be more apt, assuming the wii continues truck along at this pace. A better comparison would be the ps1 against the wii. And if I remember correctly, the ps1 was loaded with shovelware. They did receive some limited 3rd party support at the beginning, but their 1st party games were almost non-existant. I agree that too many aren't diving in headfirst at this point, but I think it's encouraging to see a lot of 3rd parties testing the water.

Now that I look again, I see that you did say that it was new for nintendo. So, I shouldn't have brought up the ps1 and ps2 stuff, but my gameboy stuff was still right for that point (which you have now clarified with the addition of gc and n64).

I won't disagree that cartridges were part of the problem, they were, but I feel that it was more due to the strict quality control of nintedno, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

"The development costs were high and the profit margin low." You stated this as one of the reasons that developers left nintendo during the n64 era. That statement is now true for the ps3/360. Do you not think that developers will now move their teams away from that, and move to the wii?

No one is going to screw me!
Not even Nintendo. I like and respect them ... but as a friend. Nothing more.

The thing is, from the start of this generation( being when the consoles were being preveiwed for the first time) it seemed the industry was totally against nintendo's strategy. The industry wanted Nintendo to fail, but its not the industry who chooses who comes on top its the consumer. Here are some few links.

1) Strategy Analytics says Wii a non-factor:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/16/analyst-sony-to-win-big-in-long-run/

2) Wallace declares Revolution as Nintendo’s last console:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/console-wars/analyst-revolution-nintendos-last-console-138532.php

3) Maeba and Mefibaugh say the PS3 will have 50% of the market at the end of 2006.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143288.html

4) Yuta Sakurai declares the PS3 to outsell the Wii.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3520=2

5) Business Week thinks Wii will cannibalize DS sales. http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/sep2006/gb20060920_163780.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index

6) Van Baker says casual gamers won’t be engaged with the Wii longer than a couple of years. Low resolutions will destroy the Wii future as well. http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5786&Itemid=52

7) Yankee Group says will sell only 11 million. http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3643&Itemid=2

8) Ed Barton says he cannot analyze the Wii strategy but puts it as a distant third anyway. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12890

9) Even at the end of 2005, everyone still thought Nintendo would lose. Iwata says within 2006 and 2007, it will be clear who made the right choices. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2005/tc20050314_2243_tc121.htm


And i have a whole lot more. These industry analysts proclaiming nintendo would fail out of the gate. Now tell me. Really be truthfull in your answer. If you were a 3rd party dev/pub and these "top"analysts you pay are saying all this FUD, would you make a game for the Wii? Now tell me how you would react 6months to a year later after the Launch of the Wii and seeing its success? the fact that you haven't even built assets or graphic engines or library's or even learnt the tech of the wiimote, how are you supposed to make anything other than shovel ware in less than a year?

Onyxmeth said: The PS2 library is not 98% utter garbage. You mentioned it has over 2000 titles. 2% of 2,000 is 40 titles. If it has 3,000 that's 60 titles. Most everyone would not agree with this statement that PS2 has between 40 and 60 titles that are not "utter garbage" The percentage isn't even close.

That's your opinion. It's also your opinion that the 3rd party support the Wii has received thus far, some of which has been excellent, is somehow irrelevant for the sake of your argument.

It is and will continue to be my opinion that I was an idiot for buying a PS2 because of how bad 98% of the library was.

BornFirst. said:  And i have a whole lot more. These industry analysts proclaiming nintendo would fail out of the gate. Now tell me. Really be truthfull in your answer. If you were a 3rd party dev/pub and these "top"analysts you pay are saying all this FUD, would you make a game for the Wii. Now tell me how you would react 6months to a year later after the Launch of the Wii and seeing its success? the fact that you haven't even built assets or graphic engines or library's or even learnt the tech of the wiimote, how hare supposed to make anything other than shovel ware in less than a year?

Excellent points.

Going back to the TC, I still don't understand how you can pin any of this upon Nintendo.

Nintendo has, in case you don't remember, even gone out to 3rd parties back when the Wii remote was first designed and offered suggestions regarding how they might adapt their key franchises to its usage. This was before the Wii remote was revealed and Nintendo was collecting feedback from 3rd parties about the new controller.

The only thing Nintendo could be held "guilty" of is not producing a console which is on par with the other two consoles graphically, making it easier for devs to port games from the PS2 to the Wii, but that's the prerogative of the devs, not Nintendo.

Again, how is Nintendo to blame for this? They've arguably even produced fewer of their own games, leaving more space for 3rd parties to fill in the gaps.

They've made the dev kits DIRT cheap, offered devs consulting suggestions, not enforced any policies which would turn devs away and left plenty of room for developers to release their games without fear of being overshadowed by Nintendo's games.

What else could they possibly do other than start throwing moneyhats around? (which is a terrible idea) 

And Capcom may have stated being weary about the Wii once, but that is no longer valid. Capcom has actually credited the Wii for their increasing profits in the past six months.

Capcom also made most of their big HD games multi-platform. Wouldn't that show weariness about the HD systems?

People should just stop making this threadsconcerning 3rd party support on the wii is obvious that the wii does not have a good 3rd party support for now but that will change in the future people should just stop making this useless threads and complaining and wait until the E3 when new games are announce for now who needs 3rd party support if you can have ssbb and mk.

Smash_Brother said: Onyxmeth said: The PS2 library is not 98% utter garbage. You mentioned it has over 2000 titles. 2% of 2,000 is 40 titles. If it has 3,000 that's 60 titles. Most everyone would not agree with this statement that PS2 has between 40 and 60 titles that are not "utter garbage" The percentage isn't even close. That's your opinion. It's also your opinion that the 3rd party support the Wii has received thus far, some of which has been excellent, is somehow irrelevant for the sake of your argument. It is and will continue to be my opinion that I was an idiot for buying a PS2 because of how bad 98% of the library was.

Onyxmeth's math is correct. You may feel that the PS2 did not offer you PERSONALLY more than 40-60 titles that weren't garbage TO YOU, but you must concede that 40-60 is not the sum total of games that aren't complete shit on the PS2. It may be "opinion" but it is the opinion of well over 98% (for real!) of gamers and game critics. Let go of what everyone knows is a gross exaggeration to concentrate on your well-supported arguments.

Final-Fan said: Onyxmeth's math is correct. You may feel that the PS2 did not offer you PERSONALLY more than 40-60 titles that weren't garbage TO YOU, but you must concede that 40-60 is not the sum total of games that aren't complete shit on the PS2. Let go of what everyone knows is a gross exaggeration to concentrate on your well-supported arguments.

Part of it is that I hate TBRPGs. They're not games. They're time release cutscenes where the only thing separating you from seeing the next part of the story is the number next to your character's name not being high enough.

Considering these were most of what the made the PS2 a worthy purchase for people, I'm quite certain the number is 98% for me. 

If you PERSONALLY hate almost every single PS2 game in existence, that does NOT mean that all those games can objectively be called "utter garbage".