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Forums - Politics Discussion - Warzone! Ukrainian anti-government protests.

kumagawa said:
Cheebee said:

This has gotten severely out of hand, it's now an all-out civil war, and meanwhile the EU and UN aren't doing a thing; merely talking about how 'it's a grave situation' and 'contemplating whether any decisions referring to maybe taking any action need to be taken'. It's mind-boggling. What's wrong with these people?

If the EU, UN or USA went in to support the terrorists the Russian's would go in to support the government, result WW3 and that cost isn't worth it.

And here we go again, overstating the situation.

It's appaling, yes, but no military involement by any side is going to happen or remotely possible. The worst I can see happening is Romania or Poland might want to resolve  some issues making use of turmoil if being manipulated well enough by third forces akin to Gerorgia-Ossetia situation 6 years ago, but even that is far-fetched as 1) both seem sane to me; 2) result will be the same as with Georgia since practically all parties (Russia and EU for sure) will guarantee military non-involement.

 

//As for the whole situation, I could see it happening 10 years ago. It's an end game for the Ukraine. Yanukovich and whoever supported him is the one to be blamed primarily along with that triplet of opposition puppets (the Jew, the Nazi and the Boxer). Instead of being a wuss he should have forcefully suppress the whole Maidan thing in the beginning the same way it'd have been done in Paris, London or Berlin, ending up with few fractured skulls at worst, but he made it to the point of body count of 100 and counting. F**king Gandhi.



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The video scam has been examined by many, but InfoWars seem to be the only place where it has been done in English:

Exposed: Ukrainian ‘Protesters’ Backed by Kony 2012-Style Scam

Same actors, same methods.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbhNBBS85mc#t=72

Weren't the original "protests" began after the president has refused to sign a trade deal with EU, which was based on the fact that it will allow EU to deploy their weapons in Ukraine, pointed straight for Russia? That fact seems to be omitted everywhere I read, so not sure where exactly I picked up that addition.

But it was only logical to tell EU to fuck themselves, encase of a war, which country will be fucked over first which has advanced weaponry and is straight on the border with a superpower?

People are being played like puppets, by both sides. And it's sad that the masses are falling for it, because now if anything they will be worse off than they were off before.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

^As much as I like the guy (The Prison Planet), it must be said that there's a some misunderstanding of the situation by him and PCR he's referring to. They're not wrong per se, just thinking in categories of average American patriot (Prison Planet sounds like British to me, but patriots are patriots anywhere).

If you really need to understand the situation, you'd neet to rewind back to 1991, the time of dissolution of the USSR, or even a half of decade earlier. That'd be the explanation of inner cause of the unrest, e.g. why the most avid part of the "protesters", who came on the scene after Euromaidan run out of steam, are blatantly speaking Neo-Nazis. While the events of 2004 only will help you understand the methods used, like NGOs serving as proxies for DoS and CIA (not a huge secret), MSM bias etc. In that regard there's nothing to disagree with exception, I'm not seriously suggesting NATO involement into this as a possible outcome. But if you ask me "Qui prodest?", if anyone, that'd be the States.

 

//Probably  the most comprehensive, short, down to the point, no smart words analysis of the situation I've ever seen. It's Jacob Kedmi, previosuly the head of Nativ service (Israel). Unfortunately, Russian only and non-translatable :D the video is practically gone viral.



Russian flag is over the building of Supreme Sovier of Crimea. Not entirely sure what they meant by that. Looks like Republic of Crimea is showing a middle finger to the rest of Ukraine.



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mai said:

Russian flag is over the building of Supreme Sovier of Crimea. Not entirely sure what they meant by that. Looks like Republic of Crimea is showing a middle finger to the rest of Ukraine.


I wonder if Crimea will be attached back to Russia in the end. I was there two years ago and it was obvious that Russian language ruled there. 



PS2|Wii|DS lite|3DS XL|PSP|Android

^Being marked with one color on the political map doesn't really matter much these days, if smth I'd expect Crimea to be more like Abhkazia or South Ossetia. Plus speaking Russian matters practically nothing -- a good portion of Israel is speaking Russian, so what? :D De facto Russian is lingua franca for Ukraine, and I never seen a single Ukrainian who could, well, speak Ukrainian, in 9 cases of 10 it's "surzhik", a Russian dialect.

 

 

But what makes me doubt Crimea independence in near future is the postition of... Russia here, check this:
- Yanukovich has been granted political asylum over here.
- Yanukovich has released an official note calling it a revolt, claiming that current Ukrainian authorities lack legitimacy (kind of stating the obvious).
- Official MID (Russian Foreign Affairs) called Yanukovich a President.
- Yanukovich's arranging a press-conference soon.

Anyone would have considered him a political corpse by now (especially if you'er planning to cut Ukraine in pieces), but apparently Putin and Co have different opinion. I wonder why? He's certainly not a pro-Russian president, only braindead MSM considered him pro-Russian, while he truly  was a more suitable person than Yuschenko  at best, but certainly not a buddie for Moscow.

 

Anyway these games won't solve the problem that've started it all -- it's near default situation in Ukraine -- national currency (thanks to recent events for the most part) is going down fast, people are rushing for their money in banks, social welfare is nearing its death. So what "revolutionaries" have done first when they came to power? Check balance sheets and have started begging for money from EU, US and, of course, Russia. Under current circumstances they won't live till May (presidental elections). I doubt anyone, including Russia, would invest in current Ukraine simply for the sake of having... I'm not sure even what? It's a black hole. The situation requires stabliziation first and then maybe, possibly, some chance that rest of 15 bln credit line that Putin has opened for Ukraine might reach its target. Don't get me wrong there'd be a default regardless, but it might progress in a less violent way than it's going to now.

In light of all that -- what's the Yanukovich role here? Have no idea.

 



mai said:

^Being marked with one color on the political map doesn't really matter much these days, if smth I'd expect Crimea to be more like Abhkazia or South Ossetia. Plus speaking Russian matters practically nothing -- a good portion of Israel is speaking Russian, so what? :D De facto Russian is lingua franca for Ukraine, and I never seen a single Ukrainian who could, well, speak Ukrainian, in 9 cases of 10 it's "surzhik", a Russian dialect.

 

 

But what makes me doubt Crimea independence in near future is the postition of... Russia here, check this:
- Yanukovich has been granted political asylum over here.
- Yanukovich has released an official note calling it a revolt, claiming that current Ukrainian authorities lack legitimacy (kind of stating the obvious).
- Official MID (Russian Foreign Affairs) called Yanukovich a President.
- Yanukovich's arranging a press-conference soon.

Anyone would have considered him a political corpse by now (especially if you'er planning to cut Ukraine in pieces), but apparently Putin and Co have different opinion. I wonder why? He's certainly not a pro-Russian president, only braindead MSM considered him pro-Russian, while he truly  was a more suitable person than Yuschenko  at best, but certainly not a buddie for Moscow.

 

Anyway these games won't solve the problem that've started it all -- it's near default situation in Ukraine -- national currency (thanks to recent events for the most part) is going down fast, people are rushing for their money in banks, social welfare is nearing its death. So what "revolutionaries" have done first when they came to power? Check balance sheets and have started begging for money from EU, US and, of course, Russia. Under current circumstances they won't live till May (presidental elections). I doubt anyone, including Russia, would invest in current Ukraine simply for the sake of having... I'm not sure even what? It's a black hole. The situation requires stabliziation first and then maybe, possibly, some chance that rest of 15 bln credit line that Putin has opened for Ukraine might reach its target. Don't get me wrong there'd be a default regardless, but it might progress in a less violent way than it's going to now.

In light of all that -- what's the Yanukovich role here? Have no idea.

 

I honestly think Ukraine (or a big part of it, read: west of Zhytomir), is fighting far more for ideals and dreams than anything tangible (Ukrainian idea of exiting the soviet union: we are feeding Russia, but we could live like France, I hear the same saying these days, France replaced with Poland), and as soon as they "win", they don't know what the hell they should do and start sidestepping or infighting. You can surely lead a revolution like that, and it's certainly easier than restoring whatever's left of your economy or swallowing your pride. Considering that my home city of Chernigov has now also been pretty much raided by neo-fascists, while nobody did anything, I am extremely disallusioned in anything that has to do with the country. However, I would gladly buy a flight ticket to join a demontation of Bandera's monument in Lvov, if that ever happens.

Ukrainian "politics" are the most complex politics one could mess in. The former government was a mess, this government is a mess, the next one is gonna be a mess.  I'll bring up the ol' saying - когда хохол родился - еврей заплакал. It's easy to see the meaning in it with all thats happening now.

edit:

Lumikki, everyone wishes it was as simple as Russian language dominant in speech = Russian support Russian has anywhere between 65 to 70 percent of Ukraine, being majority language even in west-central oblasts like Vinnitsya. Crimea has simply been so long with Russian Russia (I know, genius description) that the absolute most of it has nothing to do with Ukraine - I would go as far as to say that Belgorod Oblast in Russia has far more to do with Ukraine than Crimea



mai said:

Russian flag is over the building of Supreme Sovier of Crimea. Not entirely sure what they meant by that. Looks like Republic of Crimea is showing a middle finger to the rest of Ukraine.


My local media said a group of masked gunmen stormed the gov. building and raised the russian flag.

BUT

These are the same guys who said the canadian embassy was taking in injured during the protests and a place of refuge, while RT was saying it got attacked by a mob of angry's,  So im a little skeptical of what they say



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

I am very ashamed as European to see how some European leaders/ministers etc were applauding the people in Kiev while we also getting footage now from citizens who are beating up other countrymen for the simple reason because they were pro - Russia or even worse have some Russian blood.. I makes me so sick...

Russia was right about the country becoming a mess and if USA can send a special team to secure the safity of the handfull USA citizens living and being secured in Kiev then we should not be surprised Putin will invade the country for securing the 5-10 million or more citizens who are pro Russia/have russian blood..