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Forums - Microsoft - Neogaf/Cboat owned yet again over Xbox ESRAM yield claims

FlamingWeazel said:

Amazes me how defensive some people are over a site because they leaked some negative info about their console of choice, much of which ended up being true, it's beyond sad .


They hate Gaf lol



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Two things:

-If you have a large chip, your yield is worse then a smaller one by default. Not even considering faulty ones.

- i just noticed that you can store like 2-3 PS4 in the space a Xbox One takes up.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Porcupine_I said:
Two things:

-If you have a large chip, your yield is worse then a smaller one by default. Not even considering faulty ones.

- i just noticed that you can store like 2-3 PS4 in the space a Xbox One takes up.

Yields are about more than just fully functioning chips too.

Power characteristics of chips be it electromigration or general leakage which influences the minimum voltage that is required to attain a certain frequency counts as well even if all the functional units actually work correctly.

Not good throwing an APU chip into the console if you need 3v to achieve 1.6ghz...




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Why do Xbox fans hate Cboat so much? He was right about 99% of everything said.



withdreday said:

Why do Xbox fans hate Cboat so much? He was right about 99% of everything said.


You just answered your own question



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Porcupine_I said:
withdreday said:

Why do Xbox fans hate Cboat so much? He was right about 99% of everything said.


You just answered your own question


lol, I had a feeling that might be the case. But even so, he was just the messenger, so they're just mad that he exposed it all?

If that makes sense, I'm just not seeing it.



thismeintiel said:
Darth Tigris said:
The FUD served it's purpose and helped push the PS4 sales over the XBO. Calling it out now does about as much good as calling out Sony's 2005 E3 in-game footage ...

Yep, that's the only reason the PS4 is ahead. 

You either have reading comprehension deficiencies or you're trolling me.  I never said only.  In fact, I specifically said the opposite.  



ethomaz said:

This just show you don't know what yields issues means.

In easy terms yields issues means MS needs to use more Wafers to produce the number of chips they need/want... each Wafer have a fixed price for production... so if you have less good chips in the Wafer you are expending more money to make them.

Example.

Wafer Cost: $5000
Wafer total chip: 100

100% yields (100 good chips): $50 each chip (100% is impossible... the Wafer is circular so the border chips are always lost)
80% yields (80 good chips): $62.5 each chip (this % is what is called good production... so no yields issues)
50% yields (50 good chips): $100 each chip (below this % is what is called bad production... so yields issues)

This is only a example... the numbers are fictional (a 300mm 28nm Wafer cost ~$8000).

If you need 1000 chips you can reach that number expending more money with yields issues or less money without yields issues... why? Well with a 50% good yields you will need to use 20 Wafers to produce 1000 chips... so you will spend $100k but if you have the hypothetical 100% good yields you need to use only 10 Wafers to produce 1000 chips... $50k.

Of course... TSMC is selling Wafers to AMD, nVidia, Sony, MS and more companies... so they is no magical production.... they have a limitation... it is not like MS can ask zillions of Wafers to be produced in 10 days.

So right now what did you have? Sony is producing way more consoles than MS... the actual Sony Factories capacity to produce consoles is about 1.5m per month but I think they are limited by TSMC that can't delivery more than 1m APUs chips per moth to Sony... and TSMC can't increase the PS4's APU production because they have other customers to produce APUs (unless they open other Factories but that's expensive and take a long time).

MS in the other way is producing less Xbone than Sony produce PS4... at least 40% less if you look only at the number of units sold but we don't know the shipment/production yet.

If MS have the same or more numbers of Wafer by contract with TSMC than Sony then you can be sure MS is facing yields issues with TSMC production.

Remeber the difference between the sizes of the PS4's APU and Xbone's APU is less than 10%... that will give less than 5 chips per Wafer more than MS with the same % or good yields.

That's what yields issues means.

And I can't see MS having less space in TSMC than Sony... I'm sure MS have a better contract than Sony with TSMC due exclusivity to amount of money each company have to use.

What the consoles in shelves shows is that MS overstimated the demand... and Sony understimate.

This is a much more elaborate post. I'll go with that.

@OP You were so anxious to disprove Cboat/Neogaf, that you didn't back your claim up enough.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

well did you need to make a post...??? CBoat is a tool end of story.... even if he was 90% right which he is not by a couple light years.... a guy behaving and typing like he does is a tool.... and only fools follow in its foot steps.... Nixon was more reliable than that joke of a person and his pathetic minions.... the only thing I can appreciate from that dude is that anyone using him as a MAIN source of information or take his info as truth is automatically put in my not reliable list... so he makes for a great filter....

now yield issues or not MS proved they are completely irrelevant.... and sold way more than haters expected and even more than some fans expected too... all in all XB1 numbers are over expectation considering the pre launch fiasco, the bad press, the price difference, the lower powered box, the fewer launch countries, etc... while PS4 has nothing to brag about with supposedly more production time, no yield issues, more launch countries (most of which are in its own historical kingdom), cheaper price tag, more power, and yet it does a meager 1.5 more... anyway fans on both sides try to put it a win is a win but you can still point out the relatively unremarkable performance compared to what was expected and supposed to happen according to a vast majority.... bottom line in a Vegas bet they would have all lost their wagers....



withdreday said:

Why do Xbox fans hate Cboat so much? He was right about 99% of everything said.


Well, thing is he wasn't last year. Which makes people wonder why he spreaded the information.