I'm just going to respond to this because I need to correct you on this.

"

But how many gay husbands will Utah let you have?

 If you personally don't like gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same gender.  You can't force others to do as you personally wish.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

"The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. "

When calling someone out on a fallacy you should at least know the fallacy. You quoted one sentence where later I go into detail how it is the product of a failed moral system. Ironically when calling someone out on a fallacy you committed the quote-mining fallacy. If you respond to me, at least attack what I'm actually arguing. Which in summary was basically my second sentence in this response. My argument isn't gay-marriage is going to destroy marriage it is subjective moral system in where you re-define anything and everything based on nothing more than personal feelings guided by no foundation in morality. Gay marriage is the effect not cause of the problem.

Oh, man! Now you blew it!  Nothing like a mistranslation of Paul's letter.  Sorry dude, but you are just plain wrong.  Please study your history and Bible before slamming a group of people and trying to destroy the legal recognition of their families.

 Let's go and really look at Corinthans, King James Version. 

9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 It's only modern translators, such as 'the living Bible' that have turned in into homosexuals because of their personal agenda, they do not understand the context, and plain ol' sloppy work.

 The passage was written in a letter that Paul (Saul of Tarsus) wrote to the church at Corinth. The language used was Koine Greek.   In Koine Greek, the word literally means "soft." It was generally used to describe clothing worn by the Roman elite of Paul's time. Since the word was used in a list here, there is very little if any context to its usage. Therefore, it's difficult to see how these translators came up with saying homosexual in your version. The word's usage in I Corinthians is ambiguous at best. Some scholars believe that Paul simply meant persons with soft or very limited morals in general. Others believe that he meant persons who were spineless or cowards.

 In Greek ethical theory, which was adopted by the Romans, the idea of "softness" was used to refer to men who didn't have control over their desires.  It also referred to men who were too eager to avoid pain.

 So coward or 'player' would be a more accurate word in today's language.  But nice try.  You really have to ask yourself that a man who preached love, being true to oneself, and true to the one you are with, would have some issue with two men who want to be together and make a new family.  It goes on all the time, what benefit it is of any government to deny them their civil rights?

 Regardless, no relegious book has any effect regarding the government of the United States.   When women stopped being property and became full citizens, with the rights to work, own property and have jobs, why should any state deny them the right of marriage because of gender?  The answer is they can't.  Nor could they deny a man the same right of choice of the person he married because of gender.

 I understand this is hard for you to accept. It has been hard for many people to accept inter racial marriage, but they eventually realize they can only effect themselves and their choice of partner and not force their will on others.  If you personally don't like gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same gender.  You can't force others to do as you personally wish.

 As I said, feel free to contact me privately if you wish you discuses this and have questions you would rather not answer in public.

Oh, man! Now you blew it!  Nothing like a mistranslation of Paul's letter.  Sorry dude, but you are just plain wrong.  Please study your history and Bible before slamming a group of people and trying to destroy the legal recognition of their families.

 Let's go and really look at Corinthans, King James Version. 

9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 It's only modern translators, such as 'the living Bible' that have turned in into homosexuals because of their personal agenda, they do not understand the context, and plain ol' sloppy work.

 The passage was written in a letter that Paul (Saul of Tarsus) wrote to the church at Corinth. The language used was Koine Greek.   In Koine Greek, the word literally means "soft." It was generally used to describe clothing worn by the Roman elite of Paul's time. Since the word was used in a list here, there is very little if any context to its usage. Therefore, it's difficult to see how these translators came up with saying homosexual in your version. The word's usage in I Corinthians is ambiguous at best. Some scholars believe that Paul simply meant persons with soft or very limited morals in general. Others believe that he meant persons who were spineless or cowards.

 In Greek ethical theory, which was adopted by the Romans, the idea of "softness" was used to refer to men who didn't have control over their desires.  It also referred to men who were too eager to avoid pain.

 So coward or 'player' would be a more accurate word in today's language.  But nice try.  You really have to ask yourself that a man who preached love, being true to oneself, and true to the one you are with, would have some issue with two men who want to be together and make a new family.  It goes on all the time, what benefit it is of any government to deny them their civil rights?

 Regardless, no relegious book has any effect regarding the government of the United States.   When women stopped being property and became full citizens, with the rights to work, own property and have jobs, why should any state deny them the right of marriage because of gender?  The answer is they can't.  Nor could they deny a man the same right of choice of the person he married because of gender.

 I understand this is hard for you to accept. It has been hard for many people to accept inter racial marriage, but they eventually realize they can only effect themselves and their choice of partner and not force their will on others.  If you personally don't like gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same gender.  You can't force others to do as you personally wish.

 As I said, feel free to contact me privately if you wish you discuses this and have questions you would rather not answer in public.

You should be careful when saying someone doesn't know something definitely as this one of my main studies that I do. But let's see did I blunder? In the geek direct translation from the lexicon of geek words which the New Testament is based on, you find out that they use specifically the word  "OYTE ARCENOKOITAI" what does that translate to in original geek? "Nor sodomities" in our current langauge. What is sodomities according the dictionary terms which hasn't been changed in centuries?It's "sodomite - someone who engages in anal copulation (especially a male who engages in anal copulation with another male)". You using King James Verision makes absolutely no sense because the kJV is made for pubic use and not scholarly where they use Geek directly or direct translations.  

The argument from about scholars saying it could mean "soft" or "limited morals". Based on the lexicon the word "ARCENOKOITAI" is mainly used with homosexual acts and would be incoherent to use to be described as "soft" and doesn't even the narrative or time. Only place I found this was on Wikipedia page which is the worst source ever and has no sources to even confirm it. Strangely what you wrote looks word for word what you said which makes believe is this your source?

So, what do actual Scholars say about homosexuality and Paul in the New Testament?  Well known historian in New Testament history Geoffrey W. Bromiley who wrote in "The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Volume 4" wrote the following : 

"These last terms( 1 Cor 6.9 " malakol which is "sexual perverts" ) (1 Tim 1:1 ARCENOKOITAI  which is "sodomites") terms raise the issue of homosexuality. In the first (1946) edition of the RSV, Gk, malakol and arsenokoitai in 1 Cor 6:9  were together rendered "homosexuals."

You are arguing a position in the minority of scholars as Bromiley would example:

"Boswell would translate these terms as" the wanton" and "make postitutes" respectively." Such translations are linguistically possible but hardly necessary. Most commentators and translators continue to understand these terms as reference as partners in male homosexual intercourse."

There we go if your willing to look between the lines of the lexicon and contextual passage in question to defend that homosexuality isn't allowed then your not basing it on rationality but a desire for the text to say something you want personally.

I have yet to bring up Romans 1:26 which it says "For this reason  God gave them up to  dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another,  men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."

The big elephant in the room is the Old Testament on homosexuality. Which both Paul and Jesus hold on to when it comes to moral laws. I highly doubt you will tackle the Old Testament because you can't make an argument from silence on it, which is a fallacious argument to make in the first place. I could on to detail why it's a bad argument and the society was high-context society but at this point it's beating a dead horse.

The rest of your stuff I will speed round, so this isn't a longer post than it needs to be.

"a man who preached love, being true to oneself, and true to the one you are with, would have some issue with two men who want to be together and make a new family.  It goes on all the time, what benefit it is of any government to deny them their civil rights?"

2 min video very short and fun on love in the biblical world. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CIeltDuFXRI 

That should answer your question.

"Regardless, no relegious book has any effect regarding the government of the United States.   When women stopped being property and became full citizens, with the rights to work, own property and have jobs, why should any state deny them the right of marriage because of gender?  The answer is they can't.  Nor could they deny a man the same right of choice of the person he married because of gender."

Most if not all laws and the foundation of this country are based on the bible. The founders themselves admitted that. Women during Paul time played important roles and some where even Apostles themselves. Actual ironically during the time of Roman women were not allowed to vote, have business , and couldn't even give testimonies. Guess which religion was trying to push for woman testimony and had women missionaries. Which was illegal! Christianity and they treated them like equals and Paul credits one female apostle in his letters to Romans. Homosexuality isn't on the same level as women rights because in the bible women were already equal because it was not sinful to be a woman. The problem with homosexuality it is considered sin just like multiple marriages, beastilty, and incest. You can read my other post on rights and the abuse of the word or I can answer to further explain if you so desire.

" I understand this is hard for you to accept. It has been hard for many people to accept inter racial marriage, but they eventually realize they can only effect themselves and their choice of partner and not force their will on others.  If you personally don't like gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same gender.  You can't force others to do as you personally wish."

Please don't do psychology examinations on me because it's really just arguing in circle. I could easily just say "I understand it's hard for to feel anything is wrong because your native and have no sense of what morality is." But discussion like that will go nowhere where because you have no clue what I'm thinking or why. Just like I don't with you. On racial marriage, was happening in the Old Testament all the time. It was common and it was ok if they turned Jewish or already were. The last two sentences I already argued about with someone else and how it is a self-defeating position and that nobody actually believes that in reality when pushed on issues or laws.

I will message you this but response will stay up for those who want learn something.

It's not my fault that you are not that educated.

Well, your lack of... anything actually in that post sure helped in educating me

Did I say it was happening now?  But we are only talking about 40 years ago when this was happening and it wasn't until 2003 when the supreme court finally put an end to all of these laws that made homosexuality illegal.  And there are many gay youths that commit suicide because of not being accepted by family and friends.  And talk about a strawman, why should I give a fuck about how much the LDS cult gives worldwide to indoctrinate.  LDS and other religions spend far more time and money pushing their agenda than any LGBT lobby.

It's still has absolutely nothing to do with the situation today and even less with gay marrige. And people comitting suicide is a social/personal issue, not a legislative issue, so again, notthing to do with this topic. You're once again pulling a strawman (who has nothing to do with me mentining LSD )

Bullshit they don't see it as a right.  Take it away from them and they would sure change their tune.  Marraige has many legal ramifications that have nothing to do with religious traditions, so that argument is irrelevant anyways.  No one is even talking about taking away any of their "traditions", just don't force them on other people that don't agree with them.

I wasnt arguing whether or not their beliefs is right, just that it is their belief.They believe its a tradition, and thus, they believe its already being taken away from them, and they are singing their tunes. 

You should go talk to anyone that has left the LDS church to find out how "nice" they are.  It's a cult, you leave and you are shunned, even by your immediate family.

Maybe you should go talk to people who are around Mormons. In general, they are known to be nicest group of Christians in the US. And if you're a part of some community and you later abandon them, of course you're gonna get shunned by them. The same social rule applies to almost every group out there

I'm just genuinly courous how you are going to attempt to justify legal discrimation based on gender.  The most vile and powerful lawyers in the country couldn't do it either.  Which is why the expensive largely Mormon sponsored, Prop 8, was ruled unconstutional twice, in Federal court and that ruling put into full effect by the US Supreme Court.  And since that ruling, many more states have added Same Sex Marriage to their laws.

...what? Where have I tried to justify anything? ALso, where have i mentioned Prop 8? Which was btw, (voted in by THE PEOPLE). Why are you so desperatly trying to turn this into a debate on whether or not queer marrige is right or wrong? So you use words 'bigots' and 'vile' 10 times per post? Im not biting, so please just give up.

I have not in any way attaked Christanity.  Many if not most Christians and many of the Christian Churches support same sex marriage as a part of their holy sacraments.  Christ personaly never said a single word against it.  So I don't have any idea why you are trying to make stuff up against it or me.

Fair enough, i was too quick to judge, I apologize.

DOMA, which I refer to the Discrimation Of Marriage Act

Oh, snap!

 was acutally ruled in part as a direct violation of the US Consitution this summer.  Perpapse you missed it.  Marriage wither same sex or oppisite sex is federally recogized in the USA.  These old strange gender decimation laws, like the one in Utah, are just taking a while to get cleared off the books. 

I am not ver knowledgeable about US law, but seeing as how 30+ states dont recognize gay marrige, I dont see how federalism is going to change things in the grand scale.

Mormons have done far more to hold back civil rights, not just of gays, but also women, people of colour, than any other single religious group.  It's probably while, until fairly recently, it was legal to kill one in Missouri. (Not that I am saying it's a good thing to go killing people, but it was the law.  Sure bet they wanted a 'liberal activist judge' to rule that illegal.)

I was talking more about individual Mormons rather than institutional level/standing  of the church. LDS institution was mostly racist back than, as were most institutions in US, not just religious ones. But there were doznes of members that spoke and preached against it.

Your dismissing of their vile attempt to erase and rewrite history regarding Ann Frank for their own agenda is telling. They have also attempted the same with the Founding Fathers, yet it has failed.  Not a single Founding Father of the USA was Mormon.

Well, to be fair, gay lobby also tried to twist the history to promote their agenda, since they constantly try to make connections with Ancient Greek civilization and make it look like they were accepting of it, instead of being fiercly against it.

So, just curious, why do you hate gay people so much?  Has one done something to you?

...seriously??? Still?? I knew you were gonna go this route eventually. You people are insanely predictable. A day cant passn without you calling someone out on hatred.  Is this like one of your own 10 commandments?

.

  Might it be a struggle you have?  (Feel free to message me privately if you don't want to say anything publicly.)