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Forums - Microsoft - Jonathan Blow: Microsoft have a cultural habit of treating small developers like s**t

Wait, the guy annoys me too, but some of the arguments are really stupid. Yes MS opened a lot of opportunities for him and other indies, but that does not give them the right to treat them unfairly or with disrespect. That's like hiring people then treating them like shit and then when they complain they get told to be grateful you got hired and shut up.



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There does seem to have been an issue on the x360 - there have been multiple devs who have complained about MS's treatment so its not just a single dev blowing smoke. In addition they pretty much ignored indies at the x1's launch whcih was clearly another mis-step. But they have clearly learnt from this - the selfpublishing ID@xbox is a good move and they seem to recognise where they have gone wrong. I doubt indies treatment from hereon out will be much of an issue.



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NobleTeam360 said:
Lafiel said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Go cry somewhere else little Blow.

You mean he shouldn't answer questions on his twitter ? As that's all that happened and some site picked it up as "news".

It's not like this is the first time he has complained. We get it MS did something he didn't like and he feels the need to vent and if someone asks him a question about it then he should give an honest answer, but every time he says "MS treats indie devs like shit" it gets picked up as "news". Also if MS treated Indie devs so badly then I'm sure MS wouldn't have nearly as many indie games on 360 and coming to Xbox One.


I'd take an extra job where I'd be treated like shit if it meant more than doubling my income, but I wouldn't like it and I would probably complain.



Talal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
I feel like I read this story already... many times before.

If MS is treating developers that poor, they'll lose support. The end.


Developers don't want to lose more than 40% of the income.

The reason they complain is often money related. It should also be noted only a handful of developers complain and attempt to speak for all developers.

I don't believe MS treats developers as poorly as some lead us to believe. There are developers that say working for MS was great for them, but oddly enough that goes ignored.



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SxyxS said:
Mad55 said:
Lol how did they treat him and other indies like shit?


I'll give you some examples.

Bill Wyman(Rolling Stones) said:We have been selling millions,were no.1 all around the world but i barely could afford to buy me a VW Beetle .

George Harrison(Beatles) had to sell his hous(or huge hypotheque) to finance the production of the monty python movie life of brian.

 

Usually both had to be multi-multimillionaires but their gready managers ripped them off.

The same can happen to you if you are naive and think you will be treated fairly in gaming business.They will sent you a 150+IQ psychopathic greedy lawyer and let you sign a contract you don't understand because they use words and sentences in this contracrt a common person can't understand.As soon as you sign the contract and don't do what they want you to do they will thteaten to ruin you because they owe you and they control you(and your IP)

Who signs a contract they don't understand?



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DirtyP2002 said:
Lafiel said:
DirtyP2002 said:
another reason to hate on indies is this jerk.

Proud leader of the anti-indie-movement!

the sad thing is, that with you there always is a chance that you are not joking when making a statement like this *sigh* -_-

I am not joking at all.
The sad thing is, that you fail to see how indies are a bunch of vocal retards who managed to create about 10 good games over a whole generation for 2 platforms. They love theirselves more than their games and think there is somehow a big following for their games. There is not.

Asking $10 for a 2D sidescroller shooter is cool for guys like you, heh?
And the game can be shitty as hell, it will get great reviews anyway, because it is from an indie dev. Yeah the graphics are from the 90s, the soundtrack kills your ears and the game is repetitive, but it is somehow retro and made by an indie: 8/10!

Asking $10 for DLC for a game that has great visuals, something called online multiplayer, great sound effects and a story is a rip off though, because Activision / EA / UbiSoft are oh so greedy.

Seriously blowfish are the perfect example of what went wrong with indies. This is a game designer who made one (in numbers: 1) game 5 (!!!) years ago. Since then he gave sooo many interviews and even tried to influence how Microsoft / Sony should build their machines. He lives in an ecosystem MS created. This is the irony here. He made money, because MS created XBLA. They even published his first and only game. That was his market place. Now MS / Sony invest BILLIONS of USD in R&D for a console and he says, he wants to have a different architecture and another focus. Who the hell do these indies think they are?

Nobody pays $400 / $500 USD for a gaming console just to play Braid. He should be thankful for every blockbuster game out there, because those games are selling the hardware and increases the userbase he tries to sell his $10 download-only game to.

And this Fish guy, who made Fez, which is not even an outstanding game, talks at the GDC towards the Japanese game developers "You and your games just suck"... WHAT THE FUCK?! Those Japanese game developers basically created the industry he is working in. Yeah, I know there were games in the West as well, but yeah... The gaming industry would not be the same without Japan. Period.

I can keep on ranting, but I am getting tired.

There are great indie / XBLA / PSN games out there. State of Decay was very good for example, The Walking Dead was one of my favorite games in the past years. But the way some indies try to present themselves and their games is ridiculous. They will get away with everything, just because they are indies.

Let me first say that I did not read your post beyond the first paragraph.  I believe that's enough to understand how you think.

 Quite simply, as a gamer, it saddens me to know that I share my hobby with people who care more about defending a giant corporation than they do about the games and people who pour their hearts into making them.  If you don't want improvements then I hope you never benefit from what Microsoft is doing now.  I will never, ever, ever understand people like you.  



Talal said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Lafiel said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Go cry somewhere else little Blow.

You mean he shouldn't answer questions on his twitter ? As that's all that happened and some site picked it up as "news".

It's not like this is the first time he has complained. We get it MS did something he didn't like and he feels the need to vent and if someone asks him a question about it then he should give an honest answer, but every time he says "MS treats indie devs like shit" it gets picked up as "news". Also if MS treated Indie devs so badly then I'm sure MS wouldn't have nearly as many indie games on 360 and coming to Xbox One.


I'd take an extra job where I'd be treated like shit if it meant more than doubling my income, but I wouldn't like it and I would probably complain.

He has every right to do so!



Mr Puggsly said:
Talal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
I feel like I read this story already... many times before.

If MS is treating developers that poor, they'll lose support. The end.


Developers don't want to lose more than 40% of the income.

The reason they complain is often money related. It should also be noted only a handful of developers complain and attempt to speak for all developers.

I don't believe MS treats developers as poorly as some lead us to believe. There are developers that say working for MS was great for them, but oddly enough that goes ignored.


Because being treated well should be standard, it isn't news worthy. Being treated badly should be reported. Maybe you are right though about developers exaggerating, especially Blow since he seems to hold a grudge against MS. 



Well, compared to Nintendo and now Sony, MS is much more of a business. Iwata was and STILL is a game programmer and loves games. The same can be said for some of the people at the top of Sony's game division. This is why you see both of those companies releasing systems that have a better focus on gaming.

The best place to release games for indies is PC and Steam.



Baffledduck said:
Mr Puggsly said:
I feel like I read this story already... many times before.

If MS is treating developers that poor, they'll lose support. The end.


And thats exactly whats happening , witchbeam dev not publishing assault android cactus on x1  because of release parity clause and many others,also look at the list of absentees on id@xbox dev list ,no hello games(no mans sky) no tequila works(rime) no supergiant games (transistor) no thelca inc (the witness) and when these games release on ps4 first they wont be allowed release on x1 because of the parity clause 

You can't presume MS's policies are the only reason they are losing out on exclusives.

Sony money hats games as well. No Mans Sky is only confirmed for PC.



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