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Forums - Nintendo - The reason why 3D Mario is not as popular as 2D Mario

Great post

3 things I would like to add :

A/ This not only applies to Mario but also Abe's series, Metroid, Castlevania and most other 2D -> 3D games.

B/ Main factor is not difficulty but intelligibility - 2D games give you almost all parameters into a single screen while 3D requires you to "see" that which is not on-screen thus a loss of focus, and to be honest, unless there is a sense of wonder, loss of interest.

C/ About the definition of games winning and losing are defined through some sort of quantification, which is so much harder to narrow down on 3D games as compared to 2D games. 2D games allow you to have a better grasp on timing and space, thus reducing the learning curve towards perfection and allowing a shorter path to perfect quantification --> perfect satisfaction.



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chocoloco said:
 


Dude making gaming generalizations based on this forum is anti-vgc we use numbers here and they do not reflect vgc opinions. 

chocoloco said:
I thought 2D Mario was made in a day when there was a lot less gaming diversity.

And making claims based on vague childhood memories (at best) is ok?

Since you mention numbers, there are eight different genres in VGC's top 20 best selling NES games but only six in the PS3 top 20. On top of that, gaming wasn't limited to consoles back then, we had something called arcades, plus PC gaming wasn't about playing console games at a bearable framerate. Both arcades and PCs had their own dominant genres.



Player2 said:
chocoloco said:
 


Dude making gaming generalizations based on this forum is anti-vgc we use numbers here and they do not reflect vgc opinions. 

chocoloco said:
I thought 2D Mario was made in a day when there was a lot less gaming diversity.

And making claims based on vague childhood memories (at best) is ok?

Since you mention numbers, there are eight different genres in VGC's top 20 best selling NES games but only six in the PS3 top 20. On top of that, gaming wasn't limited to consoles back then, we had something called arcades, plus PC gaming wasn't about playing console games at a bearable framerate. Both arcades and PCs had their own dominant genres.


100% agree. Younger folks don't do their research.

@OP: My sincerest thanks for highlighting this. This crusade of depriving 2D Marios of these things is very strange. Business 101 says to give attention to the games that sell the most. Why Miyamoto feels the need to convert 2D fans into 3D fans is assinine (ass-uh-ten, ass-u-eleven) I just wish for a 2D Mario game that pushes boundaries like the NES/SNES days.

 



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

..or demographics?

2D Mario: 50-50 male - female
3D Mario: 80-20 male - female



I'd like a comparison with 3D World and/or 3D Land. They're 3D Mario games (and "proper" ones, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean), but the level design shares more similarities with the 2D entries.



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that's a shallow comparison. most enemies at the first level offer neglibe threat level, so their quantity doesn't matter.



Player2 said:
chocoloco said:
 


Dude making gaming generalizations based on this forum is anti-vgc we use numbers here and they do not reflect vgc opinions. 

chocoloco said:
I thought 2D Mario was made in a day when there was a lot less gaming diversity.

And making claims based on vague childhood memories (at best) is ok?

Since you mention numbers, there are eight different genres in VGC's top 20 best selling NES games but only six in the PS3 top 20. On top of that, gaming wasn't limited to consoles back then, we had something called arcades, plus PC gaming wasn't about playing console games at a bearable framerate. Both arcades and PCs had their own dominant genres.

Your first sentence is a mystery to me? I do not think you proved anything with your research, but okay.



RolStoppable said:
F0X said:
I'd like a comparison with 3D World and/or 3D Land. They're 3D Mario games (and "proper" ones, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean), but the level design shares more similarities with the 2D entries.

The numbers for SM3DL are 0/0, because there are obvious paths around pits and enemies, although you could argue that there are two pits that qualify. It's certainly closer to 2D Mario than the preceding four 3D Mario games though, because the level design is more streamlined and thus it feels like there are a lot more enemies on the way. SM3DW doesn't even have deadly pits on the way to the goal of the first level and it's no problem to bypass enemies either.

Of course, later levels in SM3DL and SM3DW increase the threat level by making obstacles unavoidable, but it's not like 2D Mario games remain as easy as in their opening stages either.


You're right in saying that the 3D games aren't as threatening on the outset, but there are more obstacles in a Mario game than the ones that kill the player. I'd like to see Nintendo further empasize raw, challening platforming in future 3D Mario titles, not overt fail states, and hopefully by extension take more advantage of 3D gameplay.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

ToxicJosh said:
2D Mario may be more difficult, or rather, have more points of peril (great read btw), but it is also fundamentally simpler.

The rules in 2D Mario are always the same; 'go right, reach the end'.

In 3D Mario the rules are more complicated, you have to explore, you have to collect, you have to defeat bosses, you have to reach the end.

In short: 2D Mario is simple, but hard, 3D Mario is easy, but complex.

I think it is the complexity of 3D Mario that puts people off, rather than the difficulty of 2D Mario attracting them. I think that the lack of difficulty in 3D Mario is Nintendo trying to ease people into the more complex ruleset. Hence why 3D Land and World, take more cues from 2D Mario than 3D Mario.


this, 2d mario is more pick up and play than 3d is. Fact is alot of people see the 3d mario and get intimditated off the bat and dont even attempt to try. 



Arius Dion said:
Player2 said:
chocoloco said:
 


Dude making gaming generalizations based on this forum is anti-vgc we use numbers here and they do not reflect vgc opinions. 

chocoloco said:
I thought 2D Mario was made in a day when there was a lot less gaming diversity.

And making claims based on vague childhood memories (at best) is ok?

Since you mention numbers, there are eight different genres in VGC's top 20 best selling NES games but only six in the PS3 top 20. On top of that, gaming wasn't limited to consoles back then, we had something called arcades, plus PC gaming wasn't about playing console games at a bearable framerate. Both arcades and PCs had their own dominant genres.


100% agree. Younger folks don't do their research.

@OP: My sincerest thanks for highlighting this. This crusade of depriving 2D Marios of these things is very strange. Business 101 says to give attention to the games that sell the most. Why Miyamoto feels the need to convert 2D fans into 3D fans is assinine (ass-uh-ten, ass-u-eleven) I just wish for a 2D Mario game that pushes boundaries like the NES/SNES days.

 

ive been hearing this for awhile, but push boundaries...how? what are they supposed to do? Its not like they are NOT making 2d mario, hell we got two last year and DLC this year.