GOGO Knack! lol....

Wow that is piss poor, UK gamers do not care for Wii U at all. Being from UK i hope its still supported as i will have nothing to play . As a Wii U fan, i guess its time for me to crawl under a rock and come back out in a few years time. I am bitterly disapointed in this. Im a glass half full kind of guy, but i cant think of any positives anymore. :(

It's sad that gamers (certainly in this and a few other threads) are judging people who buy Knack over a Mario game. Sorry, it being a mario game does not make it any more special or amazing than any other game on the market. It's that kind of elitism that I hate in the games market. i.e "My tastes are better than your tastes".

I'm glad Knack did well. I'm sure Mario will over time do better. Mario would have done a lot better if Nintendo fans had gone out and purchased it.

Aesthetically, it feels and sounds the same. It's the same theme, same characters, same sound effects etc. We both have been playing Mario since we were drinking Kool Aid and watching He-Man. I'm sure for kids, or even teenagers, it's still fresh...and it may still be that way for you, but for me it's just old hat. I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's probably great. But I can only play the same thing so many times, no matter the quality.

Seems like a knackout for Sony, but I think this is only a temporary thing.

Indeed, you don't see any actual numbers for 3D World in my post - because we don't have actual numbers for it, yet (in the UK, that is). That was the very first thing I said about this situation, and the whole point of ALL of my posts. My talk about situations with other games weren't about "hey, this is how it did", but "hey, if it did something like <this>, would you still call it a flop?". My entire argument in this thread is about "you can't judge it by position, let's wait for numbers so that we can get a better sense of absolute sales, rather than sales relative to other titles in that week".

Regarding 3D Land's time within its first week, there seems to have been a mistake somewhere. I'm guessing I accidentally looked at the 2013 "week" dates, rather than the 2011 ones, when checking that. My mistake, there. Sorry.

Meanwhile, I think you have lost track of what I was arguing about even more than I thought... because I was asserting that position DOESN'T matter. It was the other person that was asserting that it does. My noting of the fact that it was a system launch week was only to emphasise why Knack was able to sell more.

I suggest you actually go back and read the argument as it happened. You might get a better sense of what the argument was about, and why I said what I said, and what the point was about it. For instance, the marathon analogy was making the point about how long-term sales are different from first-week sales, and a slow first week does not equal a "flop". A more complete analogy would have involved noting that all systems see a sprint in the first few weeks after launch, but it isn't sensible to compare that to sales on a system that has been out for one year, which shouldn't then be compared to a system that has been out for 8 years. Each one is in a different situation, with different dynamics.

As I said, its a matter of choice and personal perception.

I play my home console most with family and friends than alone, and for that Mario 3d world delivers so much more than Knack, even with its familiar characters and art style. And it feels fresh for us because the industry today is so bloated with shooters and gore that even a colorful fantasy Mario game feels like a great depart from those gray ultrarealistic approaches. Not that we don´t appreciate those games. AC IV was an instant hit for us, but sometimes we just need something to play together and have fun, sometimes we just need some scapism.

It´s ok for me if someone doesn´t like what i like. I played Knack on my local Fnac store for about 30 minutes, I can see people enjoying it but I didn´t, neither my sister. I just think that people shouldn´t be so harsh with different opinions as some people here in Vgchartz are

You had just spent a paragraph justifying a number for 3D World based on Knack and Dead Rising sales in the US, then you told me I am ignoring the actual numbers.  Since they don't exist, how then could I have been ignoring them?

I originally entered the conversation pointing out the context of the last three 3D Mario games placements in the charts.  Since you had said

"The point I'm making here is, it debuted at 14 because it was released at the same time as a new console launch, and a week after another new console launch." 

Having other releases disrupting the charts isn't unique to this past week.  After that you continued to argue that a console launch had a bigger impact on the charts than a slew of new releases.  I went on to say that using your estimate for 3D World would put it in a similar position the week of 3D Land with the same number of new releases ahead of it (really more because some of the PS4 games were out before launch).  I also compared it to last week which had a console launch yet number 20 had significanlty lower sales than number 20 on 3D Land's launch week.  Also with the same seven new releases.

I'd say I'm right on track.

As for the marathon bit, it reminds me of a disagreement we had a year ago.  Also concerning the Wii U, a first week, and the UK.  Despite the awful launch week you expected Fifa and Skylanders to be at 50,000 by the end of 2012.  Just Dance at 100,000 "easily".  Even 11 months later they are nowhere close to your expectations.  So I'll stick with my statement that the Wii U's ability to produce marathon runners in the UK is unproven.  Maybe some marathon crawlers.

I didn't spend a paragraph justifying a number, I provided an example number for the purposes of discussion, and justified my choice of example number. And I didn't say you were ignoring the actual numbers, I said you were ignoring actual numbers - as in, the ISSUE of actual numbers.

I also never claimed that  console launches produce larger impacts than "a slew of new releases". What I said was that you can't do the comparison you did because it's a different circumstance.

It's like you extract individual sentences from my posts, and ignore the context of them. When I am talking about 3D World debuting where it did because of the console launches, I'm not saying "console launches have a bigger impact", I'm saying "this is the reason for it in this particular situation". And, from the context of THE ENTIRE DAMN ARGUMENT, it's specifically about how you can't call 3D World a flop based solely on "it debuted at number 14".

If you want another demonstration of this point, consider that Just Dance, on launch in the US, sold less than 6.5k copies (not even in the top 75). In Europe, it didn't quite make 15k (74th on the chart for the week). The game ended up selling 7 million copies. Position on the charts isn't what defines success. Neither is first week sales, although it's a little more notable than chart position. The assertion that began this argument was that 3D World was a flop - a statement that had zero justification, and the whole reason I brought up the other Mario titles was to emphasise my point about launch numbers, and the fact that games that sell 10+ million, even, can have smaller launches.

But hey, why bother trying to understand context? What matters is that you made a strong point about... uhhh... what was it again? That 3D World didn't have a massive launch? I'm not exactly clear - you seemed to jump into the argument without any actual point, except perhaps to try to demolish my argument without any attention to context.

If you are using the number in comparison to actual numbers, then I would say it goes beyond just an example number.

You didn't say that word for word, but what exactly was

"None of those games were up against a console launch, let alone two of them. As you say, 3D Land had AC:R, SR3, Halo HD, and Zelda SS all launching the same week... 3D World has every PS4 launch title launching the same week."

supposed to mean?  Certainly seems to be minimizing the conditions for the other releases.

I'm sure you'll take umbrage with me quoting you again, but this is the reason I initially made that first post.

"The point I'm making here is, it debuted at 14 because it was released at the same time as a new console launch, and a week after another new console launch.

Note that Super Mario 3D Land debuted at 9th in the UK. It has now sold 8.7 million copies worldwide and 560,000 copies in the UK."

You were making justifications for the placement this week while using the somewhat low placement of 3D Land as evidence that it could have a large LTD.  You keep going on and on about context, yet you took such issue with my first post which was giving context to the positions of the previous three 3D Mario games.  Then, when you put out your hypothetical number for 3D World I put it in context of the previous week that contained a console launch, and the week of 3D Land. 

Instead of addressing any of that you spent around half your post complaining that I had lost track of the argument.  Let's look back at it shall we?  Pavolink made a post, you quoted less than a third of it, and then only addressed about half of that third.  That was Pavolink's solitary post in this thread.  I really jumped into the middle of a heated debate there.  Not that I think he had some doctoral thesis hidden within his post, but it seems you did the same thing you are accusing me of.  At the very least you admit I addressed individual sentences.  Poor Pavolink seems to have only had the "14" and "flop" portion of his post addressed.

It's almost eerie how similar this whole thing has been to your arguments last year.  (well excluding most of that stuff above, focusing more on the content of your argument)  Except now you are using Just Dance instead of Need For Speed Carbon.  Sure, if 3D World beats its first week every week for a year and a half then it would be a huge success in the UK.  Now what are the chances of this actually happening?  At least 3D World having a decent LTD is a much more likely prediction than Just Dance 4 hitting 100k in the UK in 2012 after a 1.7k first week.