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Forums - Sony - Sony's Andrew House on PS4 and Xbox One: Graphical Differentiation Will Increase; Talks About Future

Well he would say that. But I suspect it's more likely to be true than not.



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Turkish said:
Also, maybe upclock for gpu to 850-900mhz? PS4 has no overheating issues so they may try to beef up the gpu or cpu a bit in the future.

Once they ship consoles, that's the console spec.  Upclocking or even adding new processors is easily technically possible, but that means that game devs can't write one game and optimize around hardware spec, they either take advantage of the new spec to the hilt and exclude all the old spec models, or need to  write a game around the least common denominator and the new-spec consoles might 'turn up' a few quality settings, but can't create a game fundamentlly strucutured around the new capabilities... In other words, PC gaming not console gaming.  So that's just unlikely to happen... Although Sony's said they expect this console gen to be shorter than last one, and it's pretty easy to see the next gen being fully BW_compatable with this one, just with more power and unique features.  But if they were going to do that with PS4, they would have done it at launch (like MS did).  We are still waiting to learn the exact clockrate though, AFAIK.



Skeeuk said:
you will defiantly see gap widening there's no doubt about that, however visual gap doesn't mean better games


Except the fundamental hardware difference is extra shader units COMBINED WITH 10x the GPGPU capability AND unified memory to facilitate 2-way data exchange of those GPGPU threads with the main CPU threads, meaning that GPU will not just enhance graphics but also other game aspects, allowing games that fundamentally aren't possibl with XBone architecture, with developers not needing to fit their concepts into whatever form ESRAM dictates.  With PS4 sharing the same basic building blocks as XBOne re: CPU/GPU cors, but just with 50% more on the latter side, means PS4 will be able to do all the optimization that XBone can + more.  Simply, nobody is even making any technical argument or hypothesis on how XBone's architecture allows optimizations that PS4 cannot, all they can argue is if your code is adapted to fit XBone's ESRAM then it can offer equivalent memory thruput as GDDR5, ignoring the number of code designs that are simply not amenable to that and which thus XBone is cut out of, while PS4's memory can do everything XBone's can, in essence.  Since MS has so far not announced any 'super creativity drug' that they are exclusively sharing only with XBone exclusive developers, there really is nothing to counter the fact that PS4 holds more possibiities, power, and ease of development which lets pure creativity run it's course.



the graphics gap will widen but only by the exclusive's from sony's in house studios for the most part. but at the end of the day, this graphics,cpu,ram,50% this or that, doesnt mean shit, because the games are all that matters and if people cant see that, then they for certain have some issues to work out.



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the gap should widen for even multiplatforms, because the basic building blocks are mostly the same, so you have the same optimizations on XBone but more GPU cores to run them at higher detail. that is with assuming multiplatforms will largely throw away optimizations uniquely enabled by PS4's GPGPU and memory architecture... although that assumption may well not hold, because e.g. GPGPU modes can be used to more efficiently achieve the same ends as traditional shader programs.  but if you throw those away, you could view the remaining optimizations as scaling PROPORTIONATELY between PS4/XBone, but proportionate scaling starting rom 50% advantage still results in a larger numeric increase.  And GPGPU modes very well may be integrated into multiplatforms, especially since that aspect is quickly increasing on the PC side as well.  Using that capability for fundamental gameplay changes won't really happen in multiplatforms, but it can still increase the optimization MORE than even the inherent proportionate advantage enabled by PS4's GPU (other aspects of it also give it more advantages, e.g. ROPs).  And certainly for exclusives, the increase in power can enable a wide array of game play dynamics that go beyond just graphic presentation, but change the actual interactive experience... XBone being more limited is the platform that is more likely to dedicate it's power to just 'keeping up' graphically and not pursue more compute-intensive gameplay dynamics, while if the XBone's graphics level (or that of the PS4 initial games) is considered OK, then PS4 devs are free to apply the extra power from GPGPU and optimization on the stronger platform to creating actually unique gameplay dynamics. Meanwhile, they are also not constrained by ESRAM so can use a much wider variety of strategies and architetures in the game design. 



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We had 720p vs 1080p multiplats at launch ffs, I REALLY don't think that will be continuing in the future as devs continue to get a better grip on the hardware. Expect 900p vs 1080p or, god forbid, 720p vs 900p at the same framerates from here on out.

For exclusives though, yeah, we're already seeing that gap grow quite a bit just from Killzone to Drive Club with every update.



what's sad is that with XBone's limitations, well maybe somehow they can eventually scale to 1080p norm, but they will be throwing everything at achieving that... and that will become the least common denominator for multiplatform games, PS4 may be more powerful and 'turn up the detail' but the fundamental game dynamics will be determined by XBone which will be straining to pull of the 1080p experience and thus be less able to have room for other non-visual effects centric gameplay dynamics that nonetheless have CPU/GPU demands. ultimately, it isn't about 1080p being some set requirement, many games very well could be better with e.g. 900p, that decision should be made game by game, but the point of the debate was comparing multiplatform games where it IS the same game and the only difference is the resolution and other visual effects. that is revealing of the underlying power and capabilities which COULD be deployed as they were in that game, or in a multitude of other ways, but you need the power and capabilities first before you try and deploy it on unique gameplay dynamics OR jawdropping graphics OR crazy immersive sound, etc.



mutantsushi said:
Turkish said:
Also, maybe upclock for gpu to 850-900mhz? PS4 has no overheating issues so they may try to beef up the gpu or cpu a bit in the future.

Once they ship consoles, that's the console spec.  Upclocking or even adding new processors is easily technically possible, but that means that game devs can't write one game and optimize around hardware spec, they either take advantage of the new spec to the hilt and exclude all the old spec models, or need to  write a game around the least common denominator and the new-spec consoles might 'turn up' a few quality settings, but can't create a game fundamentlly strucutured around the new capabilities...


No.

They can overclock via software, you could do this with CFW on a PSP.



sure "you could do this". but the whole point of a manufacturer-set clock is that a certain % of units will fail if overclocked. if they could overclock it they would, why wouldn't they from the start if they could? MS did exactly that. but that is effectively reducing their yields, and increasing their cost. they need a certain yield, and don't want more than a certain rate failing in the lifetime of the console. future manufacturing improvement certainly will lead to better yields and better potential clockspeeds/yield, but applying a software update to old consoles with old chips would lead to bricked consoles (and whether or not the console is still under warranty, if it bricks because of an update Sony sent out, they would be liable). if they could swallow the cost of those bricked consoles, they would have just overclocked the spec from the beginning and dealt with lower effective yield, since the cost is the same to them. (actually it's higher after the fact, because they have to deal with cost of shipping to and from each customer individually for returns, labor for handling the process, etc) likewise, the plan for future manufacturing improvements is based on lowering console cost thru higher yields, upping the clock reduces those yields, which is exactly the opposite of what they want.

Sony themself have said that this gen will be shorter than last one, so why would they want to fragment their platform with PS4 and PS4.5 just 2 years before releasing PS5? 

regardless, PS4 is a pretty good deal for a gaming machine now, it will be playing much better looking and playing games than an equivalent or even $100-200 more 'Gaming PC'/Steam Machine that is bought now.  That same price for a PC in a few years might offer better multiplatform game experience, but PS4 itself will be cheaper and will likely be competitive with same price PCs at that time.



mutantsushi said:
Turkish said:
Also, maybe upclock for gpu to 850-900mhz? PS4 has no overheating issues so they may try to beef up the gpu or cpu a bit in the future.

Once they ship consoles, that's the console spec.  Upclocking or even adding new processors is easily technically possible, but that means that game devs can't write one game and optimize around hardware spec, they either take advantage of the new spec to the hilt and exclude all the old spec models, or need to  write a game around the least common denominator and the new-spec consoles might 'turn up' a few quality settings, but can't create a game fundamentlly strucutured around the new capabilities... In other words, PC gaming not console gaming.  So that's just unlikely to happen... Although Sony's said they expect this console gen to be shorter than last one, and it's pretty easy to see the next gen being fully BW_compatable with this one, just with more power and unique features.  But if they were going to do that with PS4, they would have done it at launch (like MS did).  We are still waiting to learn the exact clockrate though, AFAIK.

Well no. Just like the PS3, the upclock would happen with a firmware update, and the newer game that takes advantage of this would require that firmware. So all consoles, even launch models would need to upgrade the fw, which is gonna be included in the game disc.