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Forums - Sony - Have Japanese Developers finally realized they need Sony?

forevercloud3000 on 26 November 2013
Mad55 said:

Your just talking now as sakagucgi has stated that Blue dragon did what he wanted it t do in japan. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167571.html?tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

" I was satisfied with the initial goal that we set for Blue Dragon, which was 100,000 units in Japan, but now it's on the road to sell through the 200,000-unit mark. So I'm highly satisfied with the sales, and it has proven to be one of the key platform drivers in the Japanese market. So I feel that our objective has been accomplished."

Lost odyssye performed similarly. Resonance of fate Selling 1/3 on the 360 isn't a sign that it should be dropped that sounds ridiculous if it sold 20k on the 360 then i would say it should have been dropped. Business wise it's smart for konami to put MGSV on the xbox one as well it is going to sell to people that would not have gotten a ps4 for it and they already have played MG hd collection on 360 so they are familiar with it theres plenty of different variables to this though. 

The tales remakes are not remakes of remakes thier just remakes. Also they added alot of new things like extra characters a modified battle system, new artes, new music, scenarios and cutscenes. Tales of innocence recieved good reviews and innocence R got slightly higher reviews. Tales of hearts got a 34/40 from famitsu which isn't to bad either. 

Also resonace of fate sold 900k which is around the norm for their games so i don't see how you see it as a failure and they never release sequels to games to close together. The Star Ocean games are spaced pretty far apart same goes for valkyire profile. 

Sakaguchi(Mistwalker) was not the publisher who decides whether a game was successful over all, MS was and neither of the titles were, hence they did not chip in for the sequels. Mistwalker had to put the sequel to BD elswhere for that reason. It could sell 10million copies but if it doesn't recover dev cost then its not worth it, an aspect an artist like Sakaguchi probably doesn't think about.

What I meant was Tales of Innocence R was a port of a DS title. In general, Vita owners don't like DS hammy downs. The games were not well recieved regardless. It only did 0.26mill on DS, and 0.10 on Vita.  Half the sales of a remake of a unliked game is good over all(similar to how P4G performed). Neither were exactly profitable tho, putting a shitty game on another system wasn't just gonna make that happen. Same for Tales of Heart R

If it had of been something like Xillia ported over, I feel confident in saying it would have been worth their while.

Rosonance of fate didn't sell enough to warrent a sequel anytime soon. Even as a multiplat. Being multiplatform is no assurance you can meet target sales goals and in most cases makes those goals much higher. This game was maybe barely profitable. I think most of those sales on 360 would have easily been transferable to PS3, not all, but most of it. And then they wouldn't of had added dev cost.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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forevercloud3000 on 26 November 2013
fordy said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Mad55 said:
If they learned anything it's that they should make more games multiplat. Vesperia sold alright in the us and Europe in comparison to tales rpgs that have been brought to the us and Europe on ps3. Star ocean actually sold a bit more according to vgchartz on 360,combined the it sold over a million. Eternal sonata should have been a multiplat as well as the last remnant. Japanese developers don't just need sony they need to do things a bit different.The sales they could get on other consoles by making the games multiplat is a better option that just sticking to one console exclusively.


The thing is Japanese developers struggle enough getting a game on one consoles, putting it on multiple ones cannot be lucrative. It cost money still to put things on multiple platforms, so many fees attached to it that most don't recognize. Why not just target the LARGEST demographic for your fanbase and save yourself the headache?  Final Fantasy XIII...... honestly I whole heartedly believe the game would have sold exactly the same had it been exclusive, perk being a more refined product and less production cost.

The worst thing introduced this generation is that idea that every game should/needs to be multiplat in order to be successful. Its a sham, and always has been. A self fullfilling prophecy. By SquareEnix, Rockstar, Capcom taking this bait and making their games multiplat they set off a chain reaction. Splintering fanbases across all systems, which doomed the rest of the generation to HAVE to make everything multiplat in order to even break even. Unfortunate truth is this is bad business for most developers out there, hence more studios have closed this gen than in any other. Especially the Japanese studios. They were mostly comprised of Mid sized teams. Ubisoft, EA, Activision have only been able to produce these AAA multiplat because they have 500+ employees churning them out.

Japanese devs in particular need to concentrate on one console, the ones with the highest concentration of their theoretical fanbase. Namco learned this with Tales, SE even understands this now although they keep chasing the pipe dream of mobile sustaining them. I will bet money.....that MGSV sells less(or just about equal to) than MGS4. MGS4 sold on par with its predecessors on a system with half the userbase. Persona 4 Golden......sold almost the same as what it did on PS2 on PSVita. This is saying something. Follow the largest "fanbase" not the "userbase". Chasing the userbase leads to companies being spread so thin that the product is not even worth it anymore.

By that mentality, Final Fantasy 7 would have sold twice as well if Square just stuck with Nintendo, since that's where the fanbase was....

apparently not because moving away from Nintendo ushered in the largest sales boom the company had ever seen. FFVII sold twice as much as any given FF title on NIN console. I'm saying they should go where the fanbase goes, fanbase went Playstation and has so far mostly stayed there.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

0815user on 26 November 2013
fordy said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Mad55 said:
If they learned anything it's that they should make more games multiplat. Vesperia sold alright in the us and Europe in comparison to tales rpgs that have been brought to the us and Europe on ps3. Star ocean actually sold a bit more according to vgchartz on 360,combined the it sold over a million. Eternal sonata should have been a multiplat as well as the last remnant. Japanese developers don't just need sony they need to do things a bit different.The sales they could get on other consoles by making the games multiplat is a better option that just sticking to one console exclusively.


The thing is Japanese developers struggle enough getting a game on one consoles, putting it on multiple ones cannot be lucrative. It cost money still to put things on multiple platforms, so many fees attached to it that most don't recognize. Why not just target the LARGEST demographic for your fanbase and save yourself the headache?  Final Fantasy XIII...... honestly I whole heartedly believe the game would have sold exactly the same had it been exclusive, perk being a more refined product and less production cost.

The worst thing introduced this generation is that idea that every game should/needs to be multiplat in order to be successful. Its a sham, and always has been. A self fullfilling prophecy. By SquareEnix, Rockstar, Capcom taking this bait and making their games multiplat they set off a chain reaction. Splintering fanbases across all systems, which doomed the rest of the generation to HAVE to make everything multiplat in order to even break even. Unfortunate truth is this is bad business for most developers out there, hence more studios have closed this gen than in any other. Especially the Japanese studios. They were mostly comprised of Mid sized teams. Ubisoft, EA, Activision have only been able to produce these AAA multiplat because they have 500+ employees churning them out.

Japanese devs in particular need to concentrate on one console, the ones with the highest concentration of their theoretical fanbase. Namco learned this with Tales, SE even understands this now although they keep chasing the pipe dream of mobile sustaining them. I will bet money.....that MGSV sells less(or just about equal to) than MGS4. MGS4 sold on par with its predecessors on a system with half the userbase. Persona 4 Golden......sold almost the same as what it did on PS2 on PSVita. This is saying something. Follow the largest "fanbase" not the "userbase". Chasing the userbase leads to companies being spread so thin that the product is not even worth it anymore.

By that mentality, Final Fantasy 7 would have sold twice as well if Square just stuck with Nintendo, since that's where the fanbase was....

i don't think so because the main difference imo is that the square fan base at that time accepted sonys platform whereas the jrpg fan base never accepted microsofts platform. 



fordy on 26 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
fordy said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Mad55 said:
If they learned anything it's that they should make more games multiplat. Vesperia sold alright in the us and Europe in comparison to tales rpgs that have been brought to the us and Europe on ps3. Star ocean actually sold a bit more according to vgchartz on 360,combined the it sold over a million. Eternal sonata should have been a multiplat as well as the last remnant. Japanese developers don't just need sony they need to do things a bit different.The sales they could get on other consoles by making the games multiplat is a better option that just sticking to one console exclusively.


The thing is Japanese developers struggle enough getting a game on one consoles, putting it on multiple ones cannot be lucrative. It cost money still to put things on multiple platforms, so many fees attached to it that most don't recognize. Why not just target the LARGEST demographic for your fanbase and save yourself the headache?  Final Fantasy XIII...... honestly I whole heartedly believe the game would have sold exactly the same had it been exclusive, perk being a more refined product and less production cost.

The worst thing introduced this generation is that idea that every game should/needs to be multiplat in order to be successful. Its a sham, and always has been. A self fullfilling prophecy. By SquareEnix, Rockstar, Capcom taking this bait and making their games multiplat they set off a chain reaction. Splintering fanbases across all systems, which doomed the rest of the generation to HAVE to make everything multiplat in order to even break even. Unfortunate truth is this is bad business for most developers out there, hence more studios have closed this gen than in any other. Especially the Japanese studios. They were mostly comprised of Mid sized teams. Ubisoft, EA, Activision have only been able to produce these AAA multiplat because they have 500+ employees churning them out.

Japanese devs in particular need to concentrate on one console, the ones with the highest concentration of their theoretical fanbase. Namco learned this with Tales, SE even understands this now although they keep chasing the pipe dream of mobile sustaining them. I will bet money.....that MGSV sells less(or just about equal to) than MGS4. MGS4 sold on par with its predecessors on a system with half the userbase. Persona 4 Golden......sold almost the same as what it did on PS2 on PSVita. This is saying something. Follow the largest "fanbase" not the "userbase". Chasing the userbase leads to companies being spread so thin that the product is not even worth it anymore.

By that mentality, Final Fantasy 7 would have sold twice as well if Square just stuck with Nintendo, since that's where the fanbase was....

apparently not because moving away from Nintendo ushered in the largest sales boom the company had ever seen. FFVII sold twice as much as any given FF title on NIN console. I'm saying they should go where the fanbase goes, fanbase went Playstation and has so far mostly stayed there.


In other words, your statement is true for all instances that you are willing to accept is true.

You can't have it both ways....



Mad55 on 26 November 2013
forevercloud3000 said:
Mad55 said:

Your just talking now as sakagucgi has stated that Blue dragon did what he wanted it t do in japan. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167571.html?tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

" I was satisfied with the initial goal that we set for Blue Dragon, which was 100,000 units in Japan, but now it's on the road to sell through the 200,000-unit mark. So I'm highly satisfied with the sales, and it has proven to be one of the key platform drivers in the Japanese market. So I feel that our objective has been accomplished."

Lost odyssye performed similarly. Resonance of fate Selling 1/3 on the 360 isn't a sign that it should be dropped that sounds ridiculous if it sold 20k on the 360 then i would say it should have been dropped. Business wise it's smart for konami to put MGSV on the xbox one as well it is going to sell to people that would not have gotten a ps4 for it and they already have played MG hd collection on 360 so they are familiar with it theres plenty of different variables to this though. 

The tales remakes are not remakes of remakes thier just remakes. Also they added alot of new things like extra characters a modified battle system, new artes, new music, scenarios and cutscenes. Tales of innocence recieved good reviews and innocence R got slightly higher reviews. Tales of hearts got a 34/40 from famitsu which isn't to bad either. 

Also resonace of fate sold 900k which is around the norm for their games so i don't see how you see it as a failure and they never release sequels to games to close together. The Star Ocean games are spaced pretty far apart same goes for valkyire profile. 

Sakaguchi(Mistwalker) was not the publisher who decides whether a game was successful over all, MS was and neither of the titles were, hence they did not chip in for the sequels. Mistwalker had to put the sequel to BD elswhere for that reason. It could sell 10million copies but if it doesn't recover dev cost then its not worth it, an aspect an artist like Sakaguchi probably doesn't think about.

What I meant was Tales of Innocence R was a port of a DS title. In general, Vita owners don't like DS hammy downs. The games were not well recieved regardless. It only did 0.26mill on DS, and 0.10 on Vita.  Half the sales of a remake of a unliked game is good over all(similar to how P4G performed). Neither were exactly profitable tho, putting a shitty game on another system wasn't just gonna make that happen. Same for Tales of Heart R

If it had of been something like Xillia ported over, I feel confident in saying it would have been worth their while.

Rosonance of fate didn't sell enough to warrent a sequel anytime soon. Even as a multiplat. Being multiplatform is no assurance you can meet target sales goals and in most cases makes those goals much higher. This game was maybe barely profitable. I think most of those sales on 360 would have easily been transferable to PS3, not all, but most of it. And then they wouldn't of had added dev cost.

I'll take sakaguchis word over yours, regardless a developer would know what the sales figures would need to be for a successful launch. Show me proof of microsoft saying that the 2 mistwalker titles weren't successful then ill take your word if you have no proof ill go with sakaguchis word and years of experience in the game industry. You say he doesn't think about profit? Have you heard him say that? In the link I send you he says they expected 100k in japan and seemed to have reached double that. Also hes more than an artisit hes sometimes a director, a designer, a supervisor, an executive producer and a story drafter. The guy knows what hes talking about. 

Who told you that vita owners don't like enhanced remakes? the ds was hugely succesful in japan im sure their fine with an enhanced remake that adds to the overall experience those vita remakes are better for being on the vita their imo more complete that way. and why are you telling me how bad tales did on vita, isn't the whole point of this thread that japanese devs should stick with sony? Which is ridiculous. Also those remakes were not shitty the reviews were favorable don't call them shitty to fit your agenda because they weren't received as such.

I never said being multiplat was an assurance that you would meet sales targets, but neither is sticking to one platform. Sorry most of the 300k 360 owners were not going to get it on ps3 if it were exclusive. Maybe 10-50k though theres no way to accurately tell. 



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the_anarchyz on 27 November 2013

In my opinion, going exclusive or going multi is not the problem here, the problem is that development costs were high on the consoles, especially on the PS3, the Cell was more complicated than the PS2 Emotion Engine, same with the RSX, not to mention the change from SD to HD, and the PS3 sales were not as good as the PS2s, so devs tried other alternatives, like making multi games or exclusive deals with Microsoft.

Now, the PS4 is closer to a PC than ever with the AMD Jaguar, so devs should get a break in development costs, now it's up to the base. The first year of sales is important for the devs to figure it out, if the PS4 beats the Xbox One in Europe and recovers the lost territory in the US, J-devs will be more than happy to make more exclusive games for the PS4.