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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - FAST Racing NEO powered by 2nd generation engine for Wii U supports and uses 4k-8k textures

fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
megafenix said:


sorry dude, is not my english, is the keyboard taht is not working properly thanks to my cat

the laugh on you actually

there is no external bus, is direct connection

wii u gpu has direct access to the edram bandwidth just like the xbox rops had full access to the edram of 256gb/s

 

1024bits doesnt figure as an option for many reasons

1.- gamecube was 512 bits, after more than a decade and only 1024?

2.- 1024 bits doesnt even give the bandwidth i can obtain with just 4 megabytes of the old embedded memory of gamecube

3.- ports would be impossible since the ain ram doesnt hafve uch bandwidth

4.-1024 bits is not renesas latest technology, its 8192 bits

5.- 1024 bits doesnt give you tremendous bandwidth as shinen prices wii u edra, in fact even falls short to todays standrads, even copared to main ram

 

no, miniu has to be 4096 bits to ake ports even possible, but is very likely to be 8192 bits according to renesas,. shinen, and others

 

if i need to learn grammar, you need serious schooling on math basics and logic

Who cares if the WII U has direct access to eDRAM. The more important part is the external bandwidth of the WII U which is limited. 32MB is jack shit for the most part. 

@Bold You still haven't answered my double integral question. Find the definite integral for the term 2x + 2y and integrate from boundries -1 to 1 for both variables otherwise you ain't qualified for engineer material. 



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Pemalite on 24 November 2013
megafenix said:

nope, not always, in xbox 360 was only between the edram+rops to the gpu fraebuffer

 

 

here, just a little on this

"

The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s. The eDRAM is always going to be the primary location for any of the bandwidth intensive frame buffer operations and so it is specifically designed to remove the frame buffer memory bandwidth bottleneck - additionally, Z and colour access patterns tend not to be particularly optimal for traditional DRAM controllers where they are frequent read/write penalties, so by placing all of these operations in the eDRAM daughter die, aside from the system calls, this leaves the system memory bus free for texture and vertex data fetches which are both read only and are therefore highly efficient. Of course, with 10MB of frame buffer space available this isn't sufficient to fit the entire frame buffer in with 4x FSAA enabled at High Definition resolutions and we'll cover how this is handled later in the article.

"

 

 


Nothing I said contradicts this.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

megafenix on 24 November 2013
Pemalite said:
megafenix said:

nope, not always, in xbox 360 was only between the edram+rops to the gpu fraebuffer

 

 

here, just a little on this

"

The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s. The eDRAM is always going to be the primary location for any of the bandwidth intensive frame buffer operations and so it is specifically designed to remove the frame buffer memory bandwidth bottleneck - additionally, Z and colour access patterns tend not to be particularly optimal for traditional DRAM controllers where they are frequent read/write penalties, so by placing all of these operations in the eDRAM daughter die, aside from the system calls, this leaves the system memory bus free for texture and vertex data fetches which are both read only and are therefore highly efficient. Of course, with 10MB of frame buffer space available this isn't sufficient to fit the entire frame buffer in with 4x FSAA enabled at High Definition resolutions and we'll cover how this is handled later in the article.

"

 

 


Nothing I said contradicts this.


well then

guess that youy believe 563GB/s of bandwidth if thats the case

since the xbox rops have full access to the edram internal bandwidth of 256GB/s

dont seen why wii u gpu wouldnt have full access to the edram internal bandwidth sicne both are in the same die

is the same as xbox where tjhe rops and the edram where in the same die, same logic

 

the only difference is that in xbox case, only the rops had full access, in wii us case the whole gpu seems to have access to the edram



Pemalite on 24 November 2013
megafenix said:


well then

guess that youy believe 563GB/s of bandwidth if thats the case


Not when the eDRAM is talking to the CPU or GPU I don't.
Keep in mind the Xbox 360 had Rops on the eDRAM, hence why it had access to 256GB/s of bandwidth, we certainly have no idea if that's the case with the WiiU.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1719/7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_%28graphics_chip%29




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

megafenix on 24 November 2013
Pemalite said:
megafenix said:


well then

guess that youy believe 563GB/s of bandwidth if thats the case


Not when the eDRAM is talking to the CPU or GPU I don't.
Keep in mind the Xbox 360 had Rops on the eDRAM, hence why it had access to 256GB/s of bandwidth, we certainly have no idea if that's the case with the WiiU.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1719/7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_%28graphics_chip%29


now contradicting yourself ha?

use logic dude

wii u gpu and edram same die

xbox 360 rops and edra same die

if the wii u gpu and the edra were on separate dies, then yes, there should be an external bus, but since they are in the sae die, no, the gpu has full access to the edram bandwidth

thats all you need

options 

1024 bits, 4096 bits, 8192 bits for 32 egabytes

renesas says the best technology

shinen says lots of bandwidth thats even scary

1024 bits doesnt fit since doesnt give much bandwidth, its only double of the 512 bits of gamecube, and its not even o the xbox 360 4096 bits edram

minium believeable is 4096 bits to make ports even possible, the logical choice is 8192 bits which gives you 563GB/s with the forula with have passed here ad neoga and byond3d forums

 

seriously, even sony was aiming for 1 terabyte of edram bandwidth. Considering that, I dont see 8192bits edra with a bandwidth of 563GB/s as a lot, just what is needed



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Pemalite on 24 November 2013
megafenix said:


now contradicting yourself ha?

use logic dude

wii u gpu and edram same die

xbox 360 rops and edra same die

if the wii u gpu and the edra were on separate dies, then yes, there should be an external bus, but since they are in the sae die, no, the gpu has full access to the edram bandwidth

thats all you need

options 

1024 bits, 4096 bits, 8192 bits for 32 egabytes

renesas says the best technology

shinen says lots of bandwidth thats even scary

1024 bits doesnt fit since doesnt give much bandwidth, its only double of the 512 bits of gamecube, and its not even o the xbox 360 4096 bits edram

minium believeable is 4096 bits to make ports even possible, the logical choice is 8192 bits which gives you 563GB/s with the forula with have passed here ad neoga and byond3d forums

Eh. No point dragging this out farther, it's clear your opinion isn't going to change nor would you admit you're wrong anyway.

The Xbox 360's eDRAM wasn't always on the same die, it was on the same package, not die.
Later as a cost reduction measure, Microsoft moved the eDRAM on-die.

Won't be replying after this, I have other things to do.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

FrancisNobleman on 24 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

This doesn't mean that shin'en won't exaggerate the WII Us performance. 


They are 3 guys. Not bought like other companies. They surely enjoy maximizing NIntendo's hardware for some years now. You're the one exaggerating.

 

But oh well, history tells me that you won't last long in this site son =)



fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
megafenix said:
Pemalite said:
megafenix said:


well then

guess that youy believe 563GB/s of bandwidth if thats the case


Not when the eDRAM is talking to the CPU or GPU I don't.
Keep in mind the Xbox 360 had Rops on the eDRAM, hence why it had access to 256GB/s of bandwidth, we certainly have no idea if that's the case with the WiiU.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1719/7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_%28graphics_chip%29


now contradicting yourself ha?

use logic dude

wii u gpu and edram same die

xbox 360 rops and edra same die

if the wii u gpu and the edra were on separate dies, then yes, there should be an external bus, but since they are in the sae die, no, the gpu has full access to the edram bandwidth

thats all you need

options 

1024 bits, 4096 bits, 8192 bits for 32 egabytes

renesas says the best technology

shinen says lots of bandwidth thats even scary

1024 bits doesnt fit since doesnt give much bandwidth, its only double of the 512 bits of gamecube, and its not even o the xbox 360 4096 bits edram

minium believeable is 4096 bits to make ports even possible, the logical choice is 8192 bits which gives you 563GB/s with the forula with have passed here ad neoga and byond3d forums

I wonder if I should report you for spamming ? 

@Bold Once again you demonstrated absolutely no understanding of high technology. It does not matter whether the bus is external or not otherwise how could intel iris pro's integrated GPU have access to to the eDRAM ? (You probably won't be able to answer but oh well it's worth a try.) 



dahuman on 24 November 2013

lol what the hell is going on here? I see somebody posting Dolphin SS of Galaxy to compare to SM3DW and the emulated screens still don't look nearly as good. Not to mention that the 360 had a pretty shitty design bottleneck when it came to memory sub systems so when they made the revisions, they had to gimp the hardware to make it run slower to release 360 levels after redesign memory improvements lol. I'm pretty sure the bottleneck is not really in the RAM speed but the I/O speed with the Wii U since we are looking at 32GB of slowass NAND and USB2 level HDD speeds which are still faster than what the 360 and PS3 were able to pull off so why the fuck is this even a valid debate?

Fuck, like I take sometime off to play the new Mario game which BTW, not only looks better than Knack but actually runs at 60FPS (and yes I've played Knack, unlike some fuckers that haven't even played both to compare and are running their mouths off, looks way better than R&C too, so don't even try that shit with me), to post my fail video and I see this thread with 200 new replies of useless bantering, don't you guys have better things to do on a Sunday? You know, like playing SM3DW and make fun of the PAL people for not having it yet? HAHA PAL suckers!

 

Oh and I rock at this game obviously!


Watch live video from DaHumAn on TwitchTV



curl-6 on 24 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

Who cares if the WII U has direct access to eDRAM. The more important part is the external bandwidth of the WII U which is limited. 32MB is jack shit for the most part. 

32MB of eDRAM is not jack shit. It's very useful. 360 for example, only had 10MB.

With Wii U's eDRAM it won't be  taken up entirely by the framebuffer, so it can also be used for intermediate framebuffer captures, as a fast scratch memory for some CPU intense work and for other GPU memory writes.

And Wii U's main memory is not as cripplingly slow as you imply. If it was, it wouldn't have been able to pull off a fast-travelling open world game like Need for Speed Most Wanted while pushing out higher resolution textures and more reflections than the PS3/360 versions