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Forums - Politics - Catalonia independence

 

Catalonia Independance

Yes 25 43.10%
 
No 19 32.76%
 
Maybe 9 15.52%
 
WTF is Catalonia 4 6.90%
 
Total:57
Kasz216 said:
lestatdark said:

The problem with most European countries and their different regions is that those said regions are "burnt" out or completly alienated from their own central goverment.

For example, here in Portugal, the entire north region of the country suffers heavily from the centralization of funds and resources around the Lisbon area. While Porto, Braga and Aveiro districts are the main industrious force of the country (more than 45% of Portugal's Entire GDP is located in those three districts alone), 90% of the european funds go entirely to Lisbon. More and more there's talks of at least forming a regional goverment of the north so we can at least get a much fairer share, or else the situation will be unsustainable in the near future.

Not saying that's the case with Flanders (didn't knew that there was a separatist feeling in Belgium, we don't get that many news from you guys over here sadly) or Scotland, but situations like that can quickly erode a nation.

Scotland is actually the opposite.  They get an outsized amount of funds from the UK, and generally have more generous programs then other areas.

Scottish independence basically wants to kill the golden egg.

Scotland's struggle for independence is more based on historical grounds rather than economy ones correct? Even so, it seems like it's the wrong time for them to do so, since I don't see how they would be economically viable on their own (at least I don't know much about their export/import, industry, overall contribution to the GDP, etc.)



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SlayerRondo said:

Spain itself has shown to be a poor leader of the people with its GDP overtaken by the much smaller population of Australia. 

Catalonia has shown itself a modern economy weighed down by the burden of its large government and could be all the better after independance.


Yeah well that's not really the case from what I've heard. They recently had to go to Madrid and ask for a huuuge loan, cause they were so much in debt, so it's not like it's all rosy over there and Spain is holding them back. Catalonia is doing pretty bad financially and is on life support from the capital.

Either way, this could cause massive havoc in whole Europe and not just Europe. A new spring of nations. Starts with Catalonia, goes to Scotland, Belgium, Germany (Bavaria mainly), Ukraine, maybe Lithuania, there could be some crazy shit in Moldova and let's not even mention the Balkanian monster... In NA Canada would fall apart, in Asia there could be a new war in Russia, the Kurds could try something as well. This could be an incredible domino, it would be crazy. Good thing in Poland we're keeping our separatists at check

And going back to Catalonia, for me personally it depends on how they plan to distribute nationality. I want to move there in a couple of years (just love the region), so if they gave me citizenship after doing that, I'd be all for it I also have a few friends there who are very involved in this idea of independence and so I'm supporting them kinda because of that.

@JEMC - considering Kosovo and Transnistria managed to get by financially doing what they did, you'd also manage to get all the pensions and such. But whether you'd be better off after separation is another case :P

BTW. It always boggles my mind why you guys always go Catalonia vs. Spain only. I mean, a nice chunk of Catalonia is in France, would people wanting indepence want that part of Catalonia to join the new country or not? If yes, then why are they always only fighting the poor Spain?



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There's going to be a lot of pressure against it, outside of Spain moreover.

Likely the Catalonians will just settle for greater autonomy and Spain will federalize like the British did in '99 or the Belgians in '94. It'll get the Catalonians some of what they want without the hassles that come with being a fully sovereign country.



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Scisca said:


Yeah well that's not really the case from what I've heard. They recently had to go to Madrid and ask for a huuuge loan, cause they were so much in debt, so it's not like it's all rosy over there and Spain is holding them back. Catalonia is doing pretty bad financially and is on life support from the capital.

The economy is doing badly for several reasons with, in my opinion (I'm no economist) the 2 big ones being

1-The burst of the housing bubble. This is something that had an impact on a lot of countries.

2-Banks. Most of the catalan economy, like other countries, is/was based on small-to-medium industries. But that kind of industry relies on credits to keep going and after the bubble burst, the bank cut all its credits. That had a bigger impact than the bursting bubble by itself.

Scisca said:

BTW. It always boggles my mind why you guys always go Catalonia vs. Spain only. I mean, a nice chunk of Catalonia is in France, would people wanting indepence want that part of Catalonia to join the new country or not? If yes, then why are they always only fighting the poor Spain?

That's because "we" lost a war against Spain and that always hurts, and because they've tried to... how can I say it. They have tried to get rid of our culture and language several times, luckily without success. But I'm not going to lie, if Catalonia were part of France I'd probably speak french now as France has been a lot more agressive against other languages.

Also, that territory isn't Catalonia. It is part of what was the Kingdom of Aragón-Catalunya or Catalunya-Aragó (it varies according to who you ask ) and are usually known as PaÏsos Catalans (catalan countries) along with Valencia, Baleares and part of Aragón.

@Mr Kahn: It's true that most of us will settle with greater autonomy, just like Euskadi and Navarra have. But the president of the Generalitat already asked for it and the answer was no. That's when all this madness about being independent begun.



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lestatdark said:
Kasz216 said:
lestatdark said:

The problem with most European countries and their different regions is that those said regions are "burnt" out or completly alienated from their own central goverment.

For example, here in Portugal, the entire north region of the country suffers heavily from the centralization of funds and resources around the Lisbon area. While Porto, Braga and Aveiro districts are the main industrious force of the country (more than 45% of Portugal's Entire GDP is located in those three districts alone), 90% of the european funds go entirely to Lisbon. More and more there's talks of at least forming a regional goverment of the north so we can at least get a much fairer share, or else the situation will be unsustainable in the near future.

Not saying that's the case with Flanders (didn't knew that there was a separatist feeling in Belgium, we don't get that many news from you guys over here sadly) or Scotland, but situations like that can quickly erode a nation.

Scotland is actually the opposite.  They get an outsized amount of funds from the UK, and generally have more generous programs then other areas.

Scottish independence basically wants to kill the golden egg.

Scotland's struggle for independence is more based on historical grounds rather than economy ones correct? Even so, it seems like it's the wrong time for them to do so, since I don't see how they would be economically viable on their own (at least I don't know much about their export/import, industry, overall contribution to the GDP, etc.)

Sort of.  Though even then it's kind of silly based on the more modern history.