Pienso que no hables de lo que no tienes ni jodida idea, now go to google translator
Catalonia Independance | |||
| Yes | 25 | 43.10% | |
| No | 19 | 32.76% | |
| Maybe | 9 | 15.52% | |
| WTF is Catalonia | 4 | 6.90% | |
| Total: | 57 | ||
Pienso que no hables de lo que no tienes ni jodida idea, now go to google translator
JEMC said:
Your last sentence prooves that you don't know how the Spanish govermnent work. It's Spain who gets the money from taxes, etc., and then it gives back to the different territories a part of the taxes collected in that zone. That's how the Generalitat (Catalonian gov.) gets most of its anual budget. The problem is that several territories get less money that they should (Madrid, Catalonia, Baleares get less money than the taxes their citizens have paid), others get more and a few have a special status that allow them to keep most of their own money without having to give it to Spain in the first place. That's why your sentence makes no sense. If we declare independance, Spain won't give us money so the Generalitat will have to rely on debt (who will buy debt of a new country with so many unknowns?) until the next tax collect, every 3 months, happens. But it's not only that, there are many other things that would be a problem.
@Player2: ¡Afortunadamente! |
Firstly, the only thing Spain is known for is having a shaky economy so the new nation of Catalonia made up of the most economically vibrant regions of Spain would have less of a borrowing issue then Spain would without Catalonia.
Also Spain may have the money but it also has the debt. If they tried to hold Catalonia to ranson then Catalonia could refuse to take on any of the Spanish governments debt.
Also a good shrinking of the government could be good for Catalonia in the long run.
This is the Game of Thrones
Where you either win
or you DIE
SlayerRondo said:
And the States in America have little independance at all. |
I just don't think that's the way to go.
Tell me why it's better for everyone if they became independant nations?
Btw I voted for the Flemish Nationalist Party, but actually they don't want independence.
DamnTastic said:
I just don't think that's the way to go. Tell me why it's better for everyone if they became independant nations? |
And if most of the people dont think its they way to go I think it should remain a part of whatever country it currently is.
But larger nations tend to have regions performing poorly being subsidized rather than dealing with their problems which hurts everyone in the future.
Plus governments tend to better reflect the people in smaller nations.
This is the Game of Thrones
Where you either win
or you DIE
SlayerRondo said:
Firstly, the only thing Spain is known for is having a shaky economy so the new nation of Catalonia made up of the most economically vibrant regions of Spain would have less of a borrowing issue then Spain would without Catalonia. Also Spain may have the money but it also has the debt. If they tried to hold Catalonia to ranson then Catalonia could refuse to take on any of the Spanish governments debt. |
Catalonia's economy isn't as good as it used to be, and while technically it exports more to the rest of the world than to Spain (I think it's something like 55-45), that includes the petrochemical plant and SEAT, so the real situation is that more than 50% of the catalan economy relies in selling its good to Spain.
Becoming independent would imply getting out of the EU (said by the EU itself), so any goods that come from Catalonia would get extra taxes, making them more expensive. That, added with the rancor of quitting Spain, would have terrible consequences on our economy in our biggest market. Add the fact that we would also have to pay higher prices for what we import, and the situation gets even worse.
| SlayerRondo said: Also a good shrinking of the government could be good for Catalonia in the long run. |
A shrink of the goverments would be good for every country. There are too many polititians that only God knows what they do.
Please excuse my bad English.
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I'm fascinated by just how differently Catalonian, Scottish and Texas/Southern US independence is treated around here.
I'm generally pro independence, with the BIG caveat of the fact that I think it should require multiple votes over a 10 year period for independence to occur.
Like say, one vote every 3 years or so, requiring a 4th final successful vote for independence in the 10th year to allow the split, while the plans of the split are negotiated after the first vote.
Free Catalonia might sound nice on paper, but who knows based on the seperation terms, percentage of the debt they have to take on (you wouldn't expect to just be a debt free nation right?), Territory rights, power rights depending how the grid works... etc.

JEMC said:
Catalonia's economy isn't as good as it used to be, and while technically it exports more to the rest of the world than to Spain (I think it's something like 55-45), that includes the petrochemical plant and SEAT, so the real situation is that more than 50% of the catalan economy relies in selling its good to Spain. Becoming independent would imply getting out of the EU (said by the EU itself), so any goods that come from Catalonia would get extra taxes, making them more expensive. That, added with the rancor of quitting Spain, would have terrible consequences on our economy in our biggest market. Add the fact that we would also have to pay higher prices for what we import, and the situation gets even worse.
A shrink of the goverments would be good for every country. There are too many polititians that only God knows what they do. |
I agree that dealing with the EU and joining as a member nation before full independance would be the right course of action.
This is the Game of Thrones
Where you either win
or you DIE
| Kasz216 said: I'm fascinated by just how differently Catalonian, Scottish and Texas/Southern US independence is treated around here. I'm generally pro independence, with the BIG caveat of the fact that I think it should require multiple votes over a 10 year period for independence to occur. Like say, one vote every 3 years or so, requiring a 4th final successful vote for independence in the 10th year to allow the split, while the plans of the split are negotiated after the first vote. Free Catalonia might sound nice on paper, but who knows based on the seperation terms, percentage of the debt they have to take on (you wouldn't expect to just be a debt free nation right?), Territory rights, power rights depending how the grid works... etc. |
Power grid wouldn't be a problem. We have hydroelectric plants in the Pyrenees, as well as 2 Nuclear Plants and a connention with France. Water, depending on what the Spanich gov could do with the river Ebro, wouldn't be much of a problem too.
Please excuse my bad English.
Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070
Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB
Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.
| lestatdark said: The problem with most European countries and their different regions is that those said regions are "burnt" out or completly alienated from their own central goverment. |
Scotland is actually the opposite. They get an outsized amount of funds from the UK, and generally have more generous programs then other areas.
Scottish independence basically wants to kill the golden egg.

| SlayerRondo said: I agree that dealing with the EU and joining as a member nation before full independance would be the right course of action. |
Tell that to the EU, who didn't thought that one of their members could face a secession. What they said so far, is that if Catalonia separates from Spain, then it will a new country outside of the EU.
But I don't think that would happen. There are too many dangers in doing that with Catalonia.
Please excuse my bad English.
Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070
Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB
Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.