By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - so 8GB of ram..... and a faster Disc drive.... so why a 50GB install per game?

Mr Puggsly on 15 November 2013
KylieDog said:


Is great how you just ignore the increased amount of data that needs be read compared to last gen and think it is equal to the read speed increase.

...and not a insingle game...released in the first 13 hours the PS4 has been released.  I bet every launch game was optimised perfectly too.

 

Once again, I don't believe EVERY game needs to run off the hard drive. I believe that was a design choice Sony is forcing all developers to do. Your excuse of the disc drive simply not being fast enough, I don't buy it.

Furthermore, Sony could have used a faster Bluray drive in the PS4 if they actually wanted people playing off the discs. A 12x Bluray drive is dirt cheap. Forcing games to be played off the HDD was Sony's decision.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
ps4tw on 15 November 2013
leo-j said:

Why? A 50gb install per game? In fact I recall sony saying 0 loading times ever for games... yet not only did nba 2k13 install itself onto the HDD..... but it has almost the same lengthy loading times that 2k13 did on the ps3..... and the game although looks much better... doesn't look so good that it has to run on both the disc and the HDD for it to sustain 60fps at 1080p on a console 10 times more powerful than ps3 with 8gb of ram....

 

why is sony forcing 25GB + installs for games???? When games like KZ2, which looks arguebly as good as nba 2k13... with way more going on, runs with mb on the HDD... on the ps3, and even less loading?


Wiki it. The speed of sata 3 (is it 2?) blazes past bluray. 



ps4tw on 15 November 2013
the2real4mafol said:
What a joke, i buy a disc to save hard drive space but for some reason you have to install everything on PS4. Knack is 37gb for example, i mean what the hell? I though 500gb would have lasted the whole generation. I guess not. I want them to go back to when games didn't have to be installed on consoles.


So you want games to take ages to load? Evolve with the tech, don't be a ludite. 



ViktorBKK on 16 November 2013

Who wants to run their games off the disc seriously? Optical disc drives are LOUD and slow. Whenever I play a digital version of a game on the PS3, everything is so much smoother. No loading hiccups and I don't have to listen to the damn disc spinning. The install disc on hard drive option on the Xbox 360 was also excellent. About time they made it the norm on both consoles.



Conina on 16 November 2013
Mr Puggsly said:

Once again, I don't believe EVERY game needs to run off the hard drive. I believe that was a design choice Sony is forcing all developers to do. Your excuse of the disc drive simply not being fast enough, I don't buy it.

Sony is forcing the developers? Really?

Every developer will be happy, when they don't have to waste their resources to tweak/streamline loading times of the disc versions.



Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 16 November 2013
Conina said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Once again, I don't believe EVERY game needs to run off the hard drive. I believe that was a design choice Sony is forcing all developers to do. Your excuse of the disc drive simply not being fast enough, I don't buy it.

Sony is forcing the developers? Really?

Every developer will be happy, when they don't have to waste their resources to tweak/streamline loading times of the disc versions.


Agreed. But it doesn't appear to be an option, period.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

NiKKoM on 16 November 2013

DL only future... If you get used to the idea of the disc only being a medium to copy the game it will be easier to go DL only latter on..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

g911turbo on 16 November 2013
Pemalite said:
Regardless of how much Ram you have, how fast a Hard Drive is, if an Optical Disc drive isn't fast enough to stream data as it's needed, you're going to need to install the games and have load times.

Only way around it is if drive manufacturers started increasing the RPM's to a few thousand revolutions or do what Kenwood did and instead of having a single optical laser, used 7.
Of course, that drives up costs and noise and stuff, not something you want in a cheap device.


You must be OLD.  Haha, the Kenwood 7 laser brings back memories.  That drive was a beast.



WagnerPaiva on 16 November 2013

Maybe to prevent breaking on the disc reader? Or the CPU is not fast enough? I don´t know, but the WiiU doesn´t have it, so I guess this will be a ONE/PS4 affair only



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

Conina on 16 November 2013

As I understand it from this article, not the complete data of the blu-ray disc has to be installed at once, when you play a game:

http://kotaku.com/how-mandatory-game-installations-will-work-on-ps4-1462283797

The data you load from the blu-ray will be cached on the hard drive, so the next time they can be loaded much faster. You don't play multiplayer? The multiplayer maps don't have to be cached on the HDD. You only play the first levels of a game? The unplayed levels won't be cached on the HDD (perhaps the next segment will be preloaded). You don't watch "Making-ofs" or other Extras? They won't be cached, perhaps movie files won't even be cached IF you watch them.

If you need more free space on the HDD, you delete the caches of the games you don't want to play in the near future.

With the caching on the HDD, developers can depend on sequential transfer speed of at least 80 - 100 MB/s... the maximal bandwith of a 6x BD drive is 27 MB/s... a huge difference, especially for open world scenarios.

The iFixit teardown revealed a Hitachi Travelstar Z5K500:


http://www.storagereview.com/hitachi_travelstar_z5k500_review_hts545050a7e380

Newer 2.5''-HDDs with higher capacities will be even faster, the SATA2-limit is 3 Gbit/s... theoretically 384 MB/s, realistically around 250 GB/s.

"Cerny said his team had heard too many complaints from current-gen developers about having to wait to load in new levels of games. Putting the data on the readily-accessible hard drive alleviates that."