Reviews don't matter! (The Xbox murdered PS2 at review scores last gen. People praised its power, which is now the Wii's, and how the graphics of Xbox games were untouched be the PS2. Look at how that turned out though! PS2 still won and kicked ass!)

Cube multiplats also murdered the Ps2 in review! (Look how RE4 on Cube was the 8th best game of all time, when PS2's RE4 got 12th best game of all time!)

The console with loosing scores will do great nontheless! People just aren't used to the Wiimote yet like they are with the traditional controller. (traditional controllers feel like second nature to me and a lot of gamers compared to the Wiimote.)

It will take time.

Don't apologize you didn't even insult me just now. Anyway I don't think Gnizmo is a professional reviewer and my comment was directed towards him saying Wii Sports is a well made game. THIS IS WHERE OUR DIFFERENCE IS. I think stuff like Wii Sports was rated fairly, you don't. And not based on opinions either, but based on the merit of the game, what it offers, the depth and functionality of the game.

The best action movies get the same reviews as the best kids movies get the same reviews as the best artsy-fartsy ones. In gaming, "casual" titles are uniformly lower in review score, and moreover are constantly derided by critics as "non games."

See, this here is what I'm arguing. Nothing about movies really, that was just an example for me showing that it's the same, you obviously don't agree. Now I don't consider 'casual games' to be a genre. Halo and Mario were casual games last gen (and still are) and they both received amazing reviews. Nintendogs also scored really well because it's great at what it does. By casual you seem to be referring to...bad games.

Things like Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Party 8, Mario and Sonic...these games have some very serious flaws. Wii Sports I can see an argument for or against...that didn't get such bad reviews. But the games that did score poorly are BAD. Just because they sold well doesn't mean they should have scored higher. There are always exceptions to the rule but I think it's consistent for the most part.

Do you see what I'm saying now? Because it seems like you haven't this entire time, I know how movie critics rate movies and I'm saying they are doing the same thing as game reviewers for the most part.

Okay, I'll try to explain this one more time, because it's apparent that you still don't understand.

An entire audience (a large and growing one, at that) and the games they like (Mario and Sonic, Wii Play, Wii Sports, Raving Rabbids, Endless Ocean, Big Brain Academy, and so forth) is recieving uniformly negative reviews. You personally do not like these games, that's clear.

Here's a simple question: does it seem likely to you that an entire genre of games (mini games, if you'd prefer that title) is uniformly bad? That every single game in the genre is bad? Because that's precisely how gaming critics have reviewed them. There isn't a single game listed there or in the entire genre that has reviewed well. So here are your two possibilities:

1) It just so happens that every single game ever released in this genre is bad

2) Reviewers don't know how to objectively review this genre

If you honestly think the former is correct, then you're so heavily entrenched in your own opinions that you're being deliberately obtuse.

Here is the metacritic score for games listed in the "party" genre released in the last 3 years:

http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?ty=3&ts=&tfs=game_all&sb=5&game_genres=party&release_date_s=12%2F31%2F2005&release_date_e=&x=40&y=12&metascore_s=&metascore_e=

Exactly one game has recieved good reviews, and that one only moderately so, at an average of 83.

Okay, I'll try to explain this one more time, because it's apparent that you still don't understand. The games you've listed do not all have serious flaws.

I understand that you believe this. I don't. That's what you understand. You don't think Wii Play has flaws? Or Mario Party 8? The controller doesn't even work like it's supposed to half of the time in Mario Party 8. Mario and Sonic...don't get me started on how poorly implement the Wii controls are in that game. See I can list flaws in these games, yes they may be fun to many people but they aren't the pinnacle of what this genre could be offering, these games don't deserve 10s.

I guarantee you that in two-three years you will see 'casual titles' that are good, ones that make up for the shortcomings in what many offer today. If you earnest think Mario Party 8 and Wii Play are the pinnacle of the 'casual game' genre then we will just never agree here. I also don't think those scores are even bad.

Another thing I mentioned is that READING a review is much better than looking at a score. The text of a review can give you a much better understanding of the game than a simple 8.0 or whatever.

It has nothing to do with the genres, these titles are merely broken or imperfect. You can not weigh in novelty, you look at wii sports compared to other sports titles and will see how much depth they lack and the amount of things to unlock, options, etc, are incredibly limited. Titles like mario party are rarely recoated with anything worth a damn. Reviewers will review games based on things they have experienced. Games like viva party animals and fuzion frenzy 2 also tanked in reviews because of the FLAWS they have, nothing to do with wii.

If viva party animals had robust and amazing online, incredible single player and multi, etc etc, im sure it would score well. Look at brawl, it is a party title with a strong campaign and some form of online, care to guess how well it will sell and review?     

Reviewers won't factor wii games any differently, if the novelty somehow makes the game that much better, sure, but reviews merely break down the qualities of each title, just as pixar movies can review high like big more adult block busters, wii games can review high when developers decide to make full level production products.

But you don't give wii sports a 10 in graphics when a thousand other games on the same platform kick its ass in graphics, you don't give wii sports an awesome score for depth in gameplay when all you do are the same few actions, just as you don't score mario party 8 high when the controls don't work at times. Look at how rock band and guitar hero do in comparison, full fledged titles WITH a novelty to boot.

For nintendo supporters and non supporters, I will try to ease the pressure and say this.

I love the ps2.... think it's the best system of all time. However, from when that system launched oct 26 of 2000- august of 2001, it had nothing. Then, starting august 2001, either gt3 or twisted metal black or both hit the market, and the flood gates opened. I now that's a somewhat vague thing to say, but the point is some things take time.

The reason so few original IPs hit the market before this point is because 3rd parties were scared of the Wii. But really, can you blame them? The n64 hardware sales were par at absolute best, and gamecube sales were well below that. Then nintendo says that they're going to release a system that basically has the graphical capabilities of the original x box.

So, for awhile, 3rd parties watched from a distance cause they have no idea if the system will be a hit or not. Then the wii has a successful launch so companies figure, "we'll port some old games with new controls." It would be cheap and would provide little risk if the wii turned out to be a fad. It wasn't until the summer of 07 that the wii seemed like it really may be something special. During the summer, despite the lack of real notable software, you still couldn't find a wii in a store anywhere. They would have an average shelf time of about 5 minutes. That's around the time (I believe) companies began to see the huge market they were working with and decided to take it more seriously. However, by then it was far to late to get anything out for this past fall.

So, this year (starting in may with boom blox) will be very telling on how 3rd parties (or more then that, publishers) feel about the wii.

As for review sites being anti wii.... I think you have to understand, most publishers have had their AAA developers work on the PS3 and 360 builds of games. The wii rarely if ever receives that kind of love. At this moment in it's life, I think it would be realistic to say the wii has the weakest (generally speaking) software on the market.

And from Gamerankings, some 'casual games' that have scored very well

http://www.gamerankings.com/

Rockband-93/100
Guitar Hero II-92/100
Rez HD-90/100
Meteos-88/100
Elite Beat Agents-87/100
Planet Puzzle League-87/100
Guitar Hero III-86/100
Locoroco-85/10
Nintendogs-85/100
Clubhouse games-82/100
Uno 360-81/100

I could go on for a long time. Some casual games just have less flaws, greater functionality, more depth and just a lot more to them. And they end up scoring well. 

Gamers and reviewers are on different wavelengths for sure.

It's really weird that reviewers consistently give recycled slop like Medal of Honor solid 7 or 8/10, but they cry a river over every "simplistic" and "casual" game that comes out. Most of the mainstream, popular games with minimal challenge or creativity I personally consider casual (most of EA's products, generic FPS games) because they're so lowest-common-denominator.

Okay, so you honestly do believe that every "party" game listed at Metacritic is bad, then? That there isn't a single game in the genre that's good? Okay. 

I'm done. It's quite clear that you don't want to understand this. I recommend reading Bloom, Foucault, or even Aristotle to gain a better grasp of critical theory, because your posts are consistently highlighting your obtuse understanding of the topic. 

And I recommend reading my posts because you obviously haven't done so. You're so hell bent on arguing with me that you're not even listening to what I'm saying.
I also don't think those scores are even bad.

"I also don't think those scores are even bad."

I said that right in my post. I also listed scores of good casual/party games in my next post. You're just so hell bent on being an ass about it all and calling me ignorant that you wont even bother listening to what I'm saying.

If you think Wii Sports and Wii Play are flawless games that can't improve at all and deserve 10s then you're a completely dilusional Nintendo fan that is only debating with me because I said something that wasn't 100 percent supportive of Nintendo.