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Forums - Sales Discussion - So is Beyond officially the flop of the year now?

Zero999 said:

Maybe. but for such a difference between preorders in february and FW sales in september, it clearly shows that the wii u version sales would have been a lot better in february. the ps360 ports could have been announced later and sell the same as they did. win win.


Or it shows that VGC had no idea how many pre-orders Rayman had in February and threw a random number in there.



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There's no way we could know whether it flopped or not without knowing how much it cost to come into existence and how much they make off of it.

I will say though, I was pretty massively disappointed in it. I got about halfway through and sold the game, could not take any more. I dug some of the gameplay elements. I don't mind a game where you mostly just QTE around. But for a game to try something new and hinge so much on the story, it should have a really good story. Beyond has a shit story.

The game should have been on PSN either as one nice cheap PSN title, or in episodic releases on PSN. It has no business whatsoever being a $60 retail title. It did, however, make me wanna try Heavy Rain because I hear that game actually does have an entertaining narrative.



300k on opening week is fine, remember Heavy Rain, most people picked that up after launch and the only sold 1-2 million and its considered a success. I think Beyond will sell over 1m lifetime and also the reviews have been so mixed you actually have to play it yourself to decide. I love it. Ign gave it a 6 while Gamespot gave it a 9



attaboy said:
300k is a respectable number.

isn't that better than Heavy Rain was?




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Torillian said:
Y'know I only ever see attach used for games when the console has a small install base, don't really ever see it once the console is at the middle or end of its life. I think that's because attach rate isn't really constant. The absolute total sales a franchise achieves are much more consistent than attach rate. I mean sure you can praise WiiU owners for on proportion buying more copies of SC than the HD console owners did, but doesn't the fact that the WiiU owners had less options come into play?

At some point I'll have to look at some established franchises to see how consistent and meaningful attach rate really is. Sure you can make the argument that attach rate is more important for new IPs, but that's impossible to compare and I'd counter with the idea that not having a giant library of titles to choose from has a similar affect to install base.

This is true, but when you're talking about a game that, for whatever reason, obviously had limited appeal, then it's more fair to bring userbase into play.

Indeed, i would argue that userbase is fair game unless the game is a "killer app", that is, a significant system seller, since those are the kinds of games that you see post more consistent results across generations, whereas other games are much more userbase-dependent.



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We don't know what digital sales are.

Eventually the game will be discounted and distributed freely on the PSN, so I think it will be successful eventually.

I think it should be successful enough for Quantic Dream to continue with their next game. Whether they decide to go exclusive or not dosen't matter anymore, for their sake I hope they do get to continue with that type of game.



Mr Khan said:
Torillian said:
Y'know I only ever see attach used for games when the console has a small install base, don't really ever see it once the console is at the middle or end of its life. I think that's because attach rate isn't really constant. The absolute total sales a franchise achieves are much more consistent than attach rate. I mean sure you can praise WiiU owners for on proportion buying more copies of SC than the HD console owners did, but doesn't the fact that the WiiU owners had less options come into play?

At some point I'll have to look at some established franchises to see how consistent and meaningful attach rate really is. Sure you can make the argument that attach rate is more important for new IPs, but that's impossible to compare and I'd counter with the idea that not having a giant library of titles to choose from has a similar affect to install base.

This is true, but when you're talking about a game that, for whatever reason, obviously had limited appeal, then it's more fair to bring userbase into play.

Indeed, i would argue that userbase is fair game unless the game is a "killer app", that is, a significant system seller, since those are the kinds of games that you see post more consistent results across generations, whereas other games are much more userbase-dependent.


But it isn't something where greater userbase means greater sales proportionally.  Take a random example of a series I like, Atelier Arland + Ayesha.  We'll stick to NA sales.  First game comes out in 2009 when there aren't many other JRPGs to buy on PS3 and sells 170,000.  Next you have Totori a year later with 80,000, and then the next two following years see 30k and 30k.  You'd say the series is declining and I'd agree the NA userbase is in decline, but I see many more games following this kind of trend over a linear increase in sales that matches up with the increase in install base.  

You can't just say W101 sold about as well as Beyond because it had a 20th of the userbase because increasing the userbase of W101 would not increase the sales it got by 20 times.  In fact I'd argue that the userbase affect is not even close to one to one which is what many in this thread are assuming for their comparisons.  

As the userbase increases we basically always see the attach rate of games and series going down.  Is that because those series are incline or because you're just increasing the number you divide by when you calculate attach rate as the user base increases?  I'd guess the later.  

 



...

No that is a very bad choice of the flop of the year.
There are actually plenty of other title: FUSE, Remember Me (no one did), Puppeeter, KZ:M, LP3.. And poor Rayman Legends..



Torillian said:
Y'know I only ever see attach used for games when the console has a small install base, don't really ever see it once the console is at the middle or end of its life. I think that's because attach rate isn't really constant. The absolute total sales a franchise achieves are much more consistent than attach rate. I mean sure you can praise WiiU owners for on proportion buying more copies of SC than the HD console owners did, but doesn't the fact that the WiiU owners had less options come into play?

At some point I'll have to look at some established franchises to see how consistent and meaningful attach rate really is. Sure you can make the argument that attach rate is more important for new IPs, but that's impossible to compare and I'd counter with the idea that not having a giant library of titles to choose from has a similar affect to install base.


Not really.  I mean, I'm sure that helped the Wii U to have a higher sell rate for SC by about 20-30% (which is quite a bit), but I don't think you'd see anything crazy like a double or anything.  A boring game is still a boring game.  Further, SC is a western game, so XB360 is going to see a higher attach rate overall because its userbase is skewed toward the US and UK.

I think the only time your going to see an early life system have an especially higher attach rate is at the actual launch of the system, and with a particular high-profile launch game.  ie, the attach rate for NSMBU would be very high for Wii U at launch because people buying it would be Mario fans.  If they didn't like Mario, but like Zelda or Metroid or MarioKart or something, there was no reason to buy Wii U and would wait.  Similar with PS4, Killzone fans will be all over it, while Gran Turismo fans may wait a year or two and enjoy GT6 on their PS3 - so Killzone attach rates will be higher at launch.  But I wouldn't expect say... Watch_Dogs to have a much higher attach rate on PS4 than on PS3 when it comes out (removing bundling, of course).  Maybe that 20-30% like you see on Wii U for SC, but not much more.



A203D said:
We don't know what digital sales are.

Eventually the game will be discounted and distributed freely on the PSN, so I think it will be successful eventually.

I think it should be successful enough for Quantic Dream to continue with their next game. Whether they decide to go exclusive or not dosen't matter anymore, for their sake I hope they do get to continue with that type of game.


no dogital version i was told and think it is true otherwise i'd have bought it,pretty sure it hasn't appeared on psn



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