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Forums - Microsoft - Justin Wong: "Killer Instinct Could 'Blow Up'"

 

KI and e-Sports :

a success story 56 28.57%
 
a recognized fighter 20 10.20%
 
a missed opportunity 55 28.06%
 
too soon to know 64 32.65%
 
Total:195
fatslob-:O on 15 October 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Oh well then I guess smash bros will still be my go to fighter game for this generation and it's sad how no fighters are as ambitious compared to it. Fighters CAN appeal to anyone and nintendo proved it with smash bros. Being niche sounds like an excuse for not expanding and yeah it does look like any other fighter. 

I love Smash Bros but to say its the only ambitious game is streatching it.  The reason smash bros work is the game mechanic is very simple to pick up.  Nothing wrong with that but most competitive fighting game players like for a deeper gameplay mechanic.  Selling the most does not mean the game is better, its just that the game has a mass player appeal which usually mean complexity is taken out to allow more casuals fun playing the game.  Smash Bros has it place but it really would suck if Street Fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter and a number of other games I play went that route.

@Bold LOL it doesn't matter what those competitive fighting game players say when their kind clearly has a much more louder voice for their size. 

So wait a minute you think casual = simple and hardcore = complex ? (I Think were done here.)

Nope,  I am saying that Smash Bros appeal to a larger base because the gameplay is simple to pick up and play. The complexity of moves and strategies are very easy to learn.  Also another reason why Smash Bros has a bigger appeal because its a party type of game.  4 player action where anyone can pick up the joystick and tool around appeal to a larger base.

As for Casual = Simple and Hardcore = Complex

Yes, that break down actually is correct.  A casual player is not going to practice to learn every tech move, defensive and offensive ability of the character they play.  They are not going to look at frame advantage, combo videos or practice for hours to nail that one killer combo.  Casuals play the story mode, are fine with a few moves and are happy if they can get a few combos off.  I define a casual like my Son.  He loves to buy fighting games but really takes no time to learn any character.  He wonders why he gets killed by his dad all the time and why I beat him so easily.

So I can agree we are done if you believe that any casual player takes the time to really learn a character.

So wait a minute, you think those older 2D marios are easy ? (Hahahaha, you're serious though ?) 

How could those "casual" gamers even get past through the first level of mario then ? 

I am getting confused.  Why are you bringing 2D marios into a fighting game analysis.  I am talking about fighting games and you are all over the place.  Mario has nothing to do with what I just stated above, it's totally irrelevant.

Also notice I breakdown what I consider is a casual.  

Like you said, if a game has mass market appeal then it must be easy right ? 

Well look how wrong you are to generalize. 



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Machiavellian on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Why would that be a problem.  People who love fighting games do not care if the games appeal to the mass market.  That's like saying people who love JRPGs want those games to turn into Mass Effect.  I am really not understanding your logic, especially since there are tons of people who love and play fighting games competitively.  There are tons of fighting games that continue to come out and probably will continue.  The genre has plenty of different types of fighting games that appeal to a wide selection of people.

It really seems like you are looking for a problem that's not there.



fatslob-:O on 15 October 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Why would that be a problem.  People who love fighting games do not care if the games appeal to the mass market.  That's like saying people who love JRPGs want those games to turn into Mass Effect.  I am really not understanding your logic, especially since there are tons of people who love and play fighting games competitively.  There are tons of fighting games that continue to come out and probably will continue.  The genre has plenty of different types of fighting games that appeal to a wide selection of people.

It really seems like you are looking for a problem that's not there.

There is a reason why fighters are uncool and the hardcore fans just proved my point. "Hardcore" gamers in general do not want the genre to progress but instead make it regress. I'd rather have a franchise that is alive than a one that is dead! Not every casual game you see is easy. The motto is "easy to learn but hard to master" can keep everyone happy. 



Machiavellian on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:

Oh well then I guess smash bros will still be my go to fighter game for this generation and it's sad how no fighters are as ambitious compared to it. Fighters CAN appeal to anyone and nintendo proved it with smash bros. Being niche sounds like an excuse for not expanding and yeah it does look like any other fighter. 

I love Smash Bros but to say its the only ambitious game is streatching it.  The reason smash bros work is the game mechanic is very simple to pick up.  Nothing wrong with that but most competitive fighting game players like for a deeper gameplay mechanic.  Selling the most does not mean the game is better, its just that the game has a mass player appeal which usually mean complexity is taken out to allow more casuals fun playing the game.  Smash Bros has it place but it really would suck if Street Fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter and a number of other games I play went that route.

@Bold LOL it doesn't matter what those competitive fighting game players say when their kind clearly has a much more louder voice for their size. 

So wait a minute you think casual = simple and hardcore = complex ? (I Think were done here.)

Nope,  I am saying that Smash Bros appeal to a larger base because the gameplay is simple to pick up and play. The complexity of moves and strategies are very easy to learn.  Also another reason why Smash Bros has a bigger appeal because its a party type of game.  4 player action where anyone can pick up the joystick and tool around appeal to a larger base.

As for Casual = Simple and Hardcore = Complex

Yes, that break down actually is correct.  A casual player is not going to practice to learn every tech move, defensive and offensive ability of the character they play.  They are not going to look at frame advantage, combo videos or practice for hours to nail that one killer combo.  Casuals play the story mode, are fine with a few moves and are happy if they can get a few combos off.  I define a casual like my Son.  He loves to buy fighting games but really takes no time to learn any character.  He wonders why he gets killed by his dad all the time and why I beat him so easily.

So I can agree we are done if you believe that any casual player takes the time to really learn a character.

So wait a minute, you think those older 2D marios are easy ? (Hahahaha, you're serious though ?) 

How could those "casual" gamers even get past through the first level of mario then ? 

I am getting confused.  Why are you bringing 2D marios into a fighting game analysis.  I am talking about fighting games and you are all over the place.  Mario has nothing to do with what I just stated above, it's totally irrelevant.

Also notice I breakdown what I consider is a casual.  

Like you said, if a game has mass market appeal then it must be easy right ? 

Well look how wrong you are to generalize. 

Ahh I see where this is going.  You are right lets just leave it since this discussion is going to go nowhere. You are on a totally different tangent.  Are you saying the player base during those 2D Marios are the same as today.  We can argue that point all day as to what is a casual and what is hardcore but at the end of the day, it has nothing to do with this thread.



smroadkill15 on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Unless Killer Instinct turns into a turd before launch I don't think it will sell bad, probably over a million. I suspect most fighting games are in the A-AA budget range, so they don't need to sell millions of copies to be successful. Fighting games wont die anytime soon, there will always be a want for fighting games, hence why there are huge tournaments every year. 



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Machiavellian on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Why would that be a problem.  People who love fighting games do not care if the games appeal to the mass market.  That's like saying people who love JRPGs want those games to turn into Mass Effect.  I am really not understanding your logic, especially since there are tons of people who love and play fighting games competitively.  There are tons of fighting games that continue to come out and probably will continue.  The genre has plenty of different types of fighting games that appeal to a wide selection of people.

It really seems like you are looking for a problem that's not there.

There is a reason why fighters are uncool and the hardcore fans just proved my point. "Hardcore" gamers in general do not want the genre to progress but instead make it regress. I'd rather have a franchise that is alive than a one that is dead! Not every casual game you see is easy. The motto is "easy to learn but hard to master" can keep everyone happy. 

I still do not see where you are going with your analysis.  How is the fighting game genre uncool?  Where is this defined?.  Is there some evidense out there where the fighting game genre is having problems?  How is the genre stagnating and where is the evidense of such?  What progression/regression are you talking about?

It really seems as if you just have a problem with the genre more than anything else.    If you like Smash Bros that fine but the genre does not need to be defined by one type of game.  Its called a preference which many people choose to use during a purchase.  With your train of thought, every FPS should be like Call of Duty and every open world game should be like GTA.



fatslob-:O on 15 October 2013
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Unless Killer Instinct turns into a turd before launch I don't think it will sell bad, probably over a million. I suspect most fighting games are in the A-AA budget range, so they don't need to sell millions of copies to be successful. Fighting games wont die anytime soon, there will always be a want for fighting games, hence why there are huge tournaments every year. 

@Bold It's made by double helix and their trying to revive a franchise from around two generations ago. (Yeah everything will end well LOL.)



fatslob-:O on 15 October 2013
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
Machiavellian said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Why would that be a problem.  People who love fighting games do not care if the games appeal to the mass market.  That's like saying people who love JRPGs want those games to turn into Mass Effect.  I am really not understanding your logic, especially since there are tons of people who love and play fighting games competitively.  There are tons of fighting games that continue to come out and probably will continue.  The genre has plenty of different types of fighting games that appeal to a wide selection of people.

It really seems like you are looking for a problem that's not there.

There is a reason why fighters are uncool and the hardcore fans just proved my point. "Hardcore" gamers in general do not want the genre to progress but instead make it regress. I'd rather have a franchise that is alive than a one that is dead! Not every casual game you see is easy. The motto is "easy to learn but hard to master" can keep everyone happy. 

I still do not see where you are going with your analysis.  How is the fighting game genre uncool?  Where is this defined?.  Is there some evidense out there where the fighting game genre is having problems?  How is the genre stagnating and where is the evidense of such?  What progression/regression are you talking about?

It really seems as if you just have a problem with the genre more than anything else.    If you like Smash Bros that fine but the genre does not need to be defined by one type of game.  Its called a preference which many people choose to use during a purchase.  With your train of thought, every FPS should be like Call of Duty and every open world game should be like GTA.

The games just don't have any mass appeal and it's simple as that. Fighters were almost about to die but they got lucky even though the only two big fighters are mortal kombat and street fighter. 

Each and every game needs to offer a little something in the genre in order to be successful and copying the game isn't the way to go about it but killer instinct most likely looks to be aimed towards those hardcore fighter games with no mass appeal to boot. I don't see this game being a massive success and sales do matter!



smroadkill15 on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Unless Killer Instinct turns into a turd before launch I don't think it will sell bad, probably over a million. I suspect most fighting games are in the A-AA budget range, so they don't need to sell millions of copies to be successful. Fighting games wont die anytime soon, there will always be a want for fighting games, hence why there are huge tournaments every year. 

@Bold It's made by double helix and their trying to revive a franchise from around two generations ago. (Yeah everything will end well LOL.)

I've only heard positive previews about the game. The thread it-self is about Justin Wong, a huge competitor in the fighting scene, is saying the game could "Blow up". Idk about you, but that speaks volumes about the potential quality that is there. 



TheSting on 15 October 2013
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:
smroadkill15 said:
fatslob-:O said:

You do realize that games with more content are successful such a GTA V. Do you see a trend here buddy because I can see it from a mile away. (Destiny and watchdogs will be a smash success just so y;know.)

 


How can you compare one of the biggest franchises in history that's not even in the same genre to something considered a cult classic franchise? Seriously, very few games will ever reach GTAV success, but that doesn't mean they are failures. I really have no idea what your problem with Killer Instinct is, but your argument doesn't hold any wait. That's like comparing Call of Duty to the Witcher, doesn't make any fucking sense. 

BTW KI is 1/3rd the price of GTAV. By the time KI ever hits $60 worth of content there will be at least 24 characters on the roster. I would consider that a good price for the content. 

That's the problem with fighters in general. They don't get the appeal in the mass market to support the franchise. What if killer instinct sells bad ? What are you gonna do once fighters die ? Hardcore fans need to shut up in order for the genre to grow. 

Unless Killer Instinct turns into a turd before launch I don't think it will sell bad, probably over a million. I suspect most fighting games are in the A-AA budget range, so they don't need to sell millions of copies to be successful. Fighting games wont die anytime soon, there will always be a want for fighting games, hence why there are huge tournaments every year. 

@Bold It's made by double helix and their trying to revive a franchise from around two generations ago. (Yeah everything will end well LOL.)

I've only heard positive previews about the game. The thread it-self is about Justin Wong, a huge competitor in the fighting scene, is saying the game could "Blow up". Idk about you, but that speaks volumes about the potential quality that is there. 


You don't know about him? He's downplayed everything from price to how it plays from when it came out to why it won't sell well. Seems like he really doesn't want the game to do well. 

If I'm wrong then I apologize but this is what I'm reading from him.