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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - VD-Dev "pushing the 3DS to its limits"

F0X on 10 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
F0X said:
fatslob-:O said:
F0X said:
fatslob-:O said:
F0X said:


I sense a double standard, after looking at that compartively tiny Obscure: The Aftermath pic.

Like I said the 3DSs graphics are pretty much on par with the PSPs. Unlike you guys I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion. 


Since JoeTheBro has conviced me that graphics are about technology, not looks, I must point out that the 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate than the PSP, and can output a screen resolution 800x240. You're right in saying that in real-world, 2D gameplay scenarios, the 3DS won't obliterate the PSP. Honestly, I don't believe it'll get much better than Kid Icarus, running at 60 FPS with large draw distances and lots on onscreen action. But, you'd be wrong in saying that 3DS is as weak as PSP.

Like i said it's weaker than gamecube but I know it's stronger than a psp but the reason I said that it won't achieve better graphics has to with the 3D output of games which limits its even more limited power. 


Never say never. Especially since 3DS had games rivaling PSP's best graphics within one year on the market. Heck, even Wii didn't get its most impressive-looking (or least underwhelming) set of games until 2010.

"Never say never."

When did I say this. :P

I don't know about you but I think the 3DS is pretty much finished on trying to achieve anymore better graphics, after all it's not more powerful than a gamecube but less. 


The power gap between the PSP and GameCube is pretty large, though.



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F0X on 10 October 2013
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:
fatslob-:O said:
F0X said:


I sense a double standard, after looking at that compartively tiny Obscure: The Aftermath pic.

Like I said the 3DSs graphics are pretty much on par with the PSPs. Unlike you guys I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion. 


Since JoeTheBro has conviced me that graphics are about technology, not looks, I must point out that the 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate than the PSP, and can output a screen resolution 800x240. You're right in saying that in real-world, 2D gameplay scenarios, the 3DS won't obliterate the PSP. Honestly, I don't believe it'll get much better than Kid Icarus, running at 60 FPS with large draw distances and lots on onscreen action. But, you'd be wrong in saying that 3DS is as weak as PSP.

I did? I think you mistook my comments, unless you are still joking.


I'm pretty sure we debated over what counts as graphics in another thead. But yes, I was joking by grossly oversimplifying the conclusion we both came to at the time.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

fatslob-:O on 10 October 2013
MDMAlliance said:
fatslob-:O said:
MDMAlliance said:

See, your statement has no basis.  You just state things as if you have authority and just tell everyone else they're wrong.  That's not how things work.

Like I said go and challenge my claim otherwise you have no right to make counter statements. Evidence is king and i just showed it to everyone in this thread. 

Fine, have it your way (You provided ZERO evidence here, just so you know.  You only threw around claims.)

Here's contradicting evidence to your claim that RE: R on 3DS has "awful framerate"

Nice, I see drops to 22fps LOL. 



MDMAlliance on 10 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
MDMAlliance said:

Fine, have it your way (You provided ZERO evidence here, just so you know.  You only threw around claims.)

Here's contradicting evidence to your claim that RE: R on 3DS has "awful framerate"

Nice, I see drops to 22fps LOL. 


I knew you would cherry pick the video, and that's why I have prepared the statement that the part where that happens is in one of the larger maps (not closed corridor) and is the part where the most is going on at once on screen.  There are several times more "zombies" (not quite zombies) around than normal in a significantly larger map than the average in the game.  Even then, these drops are temporary and the game for the most part maintains a steady 30 FPS.  The exceptions being when the game is loading the other maps (you are not fighting during this time) and the occasional small drop from CPU stress.  Either way, you seem to refuse to acknowledge that your statement was incorrect.

Another incorrect statement you made was right after the one about RE: R.  About how the Kingdom Hearts game wasn't an improvement.  That is clearly incorrect if you actually played it or the other games.  The graphics may be on par with the other versions, but the maps are clearly several times larger with freedom to move nearly anywhere in that space allotted to you.  I can't speak for Birth By Sleep, but there are a good number of enemies on screen sometimes and a lack of a noticable framerate drop like there was in KH1 and KH2.

edit: Of course I do remember the part with the thousand enemies in KH2, but they were for the most part stationary on a simple field.  This wasn't done to make it easy, but done because it wouldn't have been possible otherwise.



JoeTheBro on 10 October 2013
F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:


Since JoeTheBro has conviced me that graphics are about technology, not looks, I must point out that the 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate than the PSP, and can output a screen resolution 800x240. You're right in saying that in real-world, 2D gameplay scenarios, the 3DS won't obliterate the PSP. Honestly, I don't believe it'll get much better than Kid Icarus, running at 60 FPS with large draw distances and lots on onscreen action. But, you'd be wrong in saying that 3DS is as weak as PSP.

I did? I think you mistook my comments, unless you are still joking.


I'm pretty sure we debated over what counts as graphics in another thead. But yes, I was joking by grossly oversimplifying the conclusion we both came to at the time.

Well you simplified so much that you turned graphics into image quality!



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fatslob-:O on 10 October 2013
MDMAlliance said:
fatslob-:O said:
MDMAlliance said:

Fine, have it your way (You provided ZERO evidence here, just so you know.  You only threw around claims.)

Here's contradicting evidence to your claim that RE: R on 3DS has "awful framerate"

Nice, I see drops to 22fps LOL. 


I knew you would cherry pick the video, and that's why I have prepared the statement that the part where that happens is in one of the larger maps (not closed corridor) and is the part where the most is going on at once on screen.  There are several times more "zombies" (not quite zombies) around than normal in a significantly larger map than the average in the game.  Even then, these drops are temporary and the game for the most part maintains a steady 30 FPS.  The exceptions being when the game is loading the other maps (you are not fighting during this time) and the occasional small drop from CPU stress.  Either way, you seem to refuse to acknowledge that your statement was incorrect.

Another incorrect statement you made was right after the one about RE: R.  About how the Kingdom Hearts game wasn't an improvement.  That is clearly incorrect if you actually played it or the other games.  The graphics may be on par with the other versions, but the maps are clearly several times larger with freedom to move nearly anywhere in that space allotted to you.  I can't speak for Birth By Sleep, but there are a good number of enemies on screen sometimes and a lack of a noticable framerate drop like there was in KH1 and KH2.

edit: Of course I do remember the part with the thousand enemies in KH2, but they were for the most part stationary on a simple field.  This wasn't done to make it easy, but done because it wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

Apparently you can't face the fact that it drops to 22fps. I'm not going to argue anymore on that part and BTW I would choose the PC version. 

@Bold You just proved my point even further on how I said KH wasn't a huge improvement. BTW both BBS and DDD are using the same engine so it was pretty much expected not to be a big improvement in graphics.



F0X on 10 October 2013
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:


Since JoeTheBro has conviced me that graphics are about technology, not looks, I must point out that the 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate than the PSP, and can output a screen resolution 800x240. You're right in saying that in real-world, 2D gameplay scenarios, the 3DS won't obliterate the PSP. Honestly, I don't believe it'll get much better than Kid Icarus, running at 60 FPS with large draw distances and lots on onscreen action. But, you'd be wrong in saying that 3DS is as weak as PSP.

I did? I think you mistook my comments, unless you are still joking.


I'm pretty sure we debated over what counts as graphics in another thead. But yes, I was joking by grossly oversimplifying the conclusion we both came to at the time.

Well you simplified so much that you turned graphics into image quality!


Are you going to try and convice me that image quality can't be a part of a graphics discussion?



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

MDMAlliance on 10 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
MDMAlliance said:

I knew you would cherry pick the video, and that's why I have prepared the statement that the part where that happens is in one of the larger maps (not closed corridor) and is the part where the most is going on at once on screen.  There are several times more "zombies" (not quite zombies) around than normal in a significantly larger map than the average in the game.  Even then, these drops are temporary and the game for the most part maintains a steady 30 FPS.  The exceptions being when the game is loading the other maps (you are not fighting during this time) and the occasional small drop from CPU stress.  Either way, you seem to refuse to acknowledge that your statement was incorrect.

Another incorrect statement you made was right after the one about RE: R.  About how the Kingdom Hearts game wasn't an improvement.  That is clearly incorrect if you actually played it or the other games.  The graphics may be on par with the other versions, but the maps are clearly several times larger with freedom to move nearly anywhere in that space allotted to you.  I can't speak for Birth By Sleep, but there are a good number of enemies on screen sometimes and a lack of a noticable framerate drop like there was in KH1 and KH2.

edit: Of course I do remember the part with the thousand enemies in KH2, but they were for the most part stationary on a simple field.  This wasn't done to make it easy, but done because it wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

Apparently you can't face the fact that it drops to 22fps. I'm not going to argue anymore on that part and BTW I would choose the PC version. 

@Bold You just proved my point even further on how I said KH wasn't a huge improvement. BTW both BBS and DDD are using the same engine so it was pretty much expected not to be a big improvement in graphics.

Using the same engine =/= no improvements.  That logic is just absurd.  

By that logic, I guess since the 3DS can run the MT Frameworks engine, it should be able to run ANY other game using that engine at the SAME capacity as ANY other console.  

Also, this would mean that the Unreal Engine 4 would look the same on ALL platforms regardless.  So iOS devices confirmed on par with next gen.



fatslob-:O on 10 October 2013
F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:


Since JoeTheBro has conviced me that graphics are about technology, not looks, I must point out that the 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate than the PSP, and can output a screen resolution 800x240. You're right in saying that in real-world, 2D gameplay scenarios, the 3DS won't obliterate the PSP. Honestly, I don't believe it'll get much better than Kid Icarus, running at 60 FPS with large draw distances and lots on onscreen action. But, you'd be wrong in saying that 3DS is as weak as PSP.

I did? I think you mistook my comments, unless you are still joking.


I'm pretty sure we debated over what counts as graphics in another thead. But yes, I was joking by grossly oversimplifying the conclusion we both came to at the time.

Well you simplified so much that you turned graphics into image quality!


Are you going to try and convice me that image quality can't be a part of a graphics discussion?

Both of you are having troubles of what graphics and performance means. While the 3DS is impressive in the performance department of trying to create stereoscopic 3D frames it lacks in the graphics department mainly because nintendo sacrificed graphics for stereoscopic 3D performance. 



Kaizar on 10 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
EricFabian said:
fatslob-:O said:
EricFabian said:
fatslob-:O said:
@Everyone

Honest to god the 3DS isn't anywhere near an impressive piece of equipment. You will never have games that will likely go above PSP graphics or performance because of the fact that nintendo made 3D a mandatory implimentation to the system that isn't even twice as powerful as the PSP was. So if I were you guys I would focus on the games because the 3DS isn't capable of all too much considering metal gear ran 20fps compared to the more smoother 30fps on the PS2.

Tell me just ONE game on PSP that have better graphics than RE: Revelations or KH DDD. Only ONE please

RE: Revelations has bad draw distance and enemies with an awful framerate to boot. KH DDD isn't an improvement compared to the others.


so again: tell me ONE game better than RE: revelations

Obscure the aftermath and FF type are more impressive to me than RE: revelations. 

They both have one thing in commom and that's much better environments and higher draw distances. Sure those games may not have better characters models but those games are more consistent graphically speaking. 

LOL everything else looks awful. 


Draw distance is just a gimmick to give the illusion of 3D depth, but glasses-free 3D let's you see the Depth for how it actually looks like.

Plus these Capcom games are design with 3D in mind, so why would they waste time with draw distance. The people of Japan love 3D since 2006 or earlier.

The PSP could never run Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon.

And Lego City undercover 3DS is more open world then anything the PS3 & 360 could manage for polygon graphics. Same goes for cell-shaded vs. cell-shaded on different systems.