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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Inafune:‘If a Creator Hasn’t Played Mario, They’re Probably not a good Creator’

fatslob-:O said:
Mr Khan said:
fatslob-:O said:
That's a pretty bad generalization.

I should say not. Whatever genre you work in, you probably owe something to Nintendo, pretty much unless you're in text RPGs. The historical impact of their works are foundational to game design as a whole, and if you think you can ignore the foundations, then you need a lesson in humility.

It's like anyone who aspires to be a great movie director, "Birth of a Nation" (white supremacist morals aside) is required viewing. If you haven't seen it, you can't understand where the medium's been and can make no credible claim towards contributing to the medium in a progressive way. So it is with video games and Mario, or Zelda. So much of what present games take for granted comes from these resources, and you cannot be groundbreaking without appreciating those who broke the ground that you stand upon, or more importantly, understanding why they were so successful.

Games are very different today compared to what nintendo created as ground breaking in the past. They may have had a big impact on game design but I'd go as far to say that third parties overall did more in the past recent years to make more revolutionary ideas than nintendo does now. Nintendo is not humble enough anymore to disrupt the idustry.

Focusing only on recent successes leads to a fad mentality, which is why things that are somehow revolutionary like "the cover mechanic" just get watered down and endlessly repeated. Now, i'm not trying to trash Epic Games here, as there was one thing Cliffy B knew, and that was game design. Bad designers, and believe me that these are the majority of today's game designers (and yesterday's, but that's just Sturgeon's law at work). Cliffy B made the cover mechanic because it worked for Gears of War, because he knows his history and gets what really makes games tick. Gamers, critics, and bad game designers alike just look at it and see "cover mechanic. Now required for 3rd person shooters."

This is because the fundamentals of good gameplay design do not evolve, just as the fundamentals of good movie design do not evolve. We get better tools, more bells and whistles and different ways to deliver the experience, but the core drive, that thrill, the thing that brings you back to a game again and again, is the same, which is why the first person to get it *right*, which in gaming comes down to the masters of the 80s and 90s, depending on the genre, really Nintendo, Squaresoft, EA, iD, and Capcom to a lesser degree, and their contributions shall always be the most significant, and should be the closest-studied.


Going back to movies, let's look at Star Wars. George Lucas' work on the original trilogy was better because he respected the fundamentals and was not consumed by his own ego. He was ripping off the fundamentals, left and right, from epic movie stories of his day, from Westerns and World War II movies and Kurosawa-type Samurai movies. What made the prequel trilogy as iffy (or bad, but we're not here to fight that) was that he was essentially trying to top himself, setting his new work against his old work rather than looking beyond that to the base elements that made the old work good.

Square Enix, i should say, is in the same predicament. They build new Final Fantasy games trying to top the last Final Fantasy, or one of the "great" FF's, like 6 through 10, which allows them to lose sight of the core ideals which are encapsulated in Final Fantasy 1.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....



 

Is he trying to get picked up by Nintendo? Won't surprise me if true, Capcom is probably being a dick to him over Mighty Number 9.

I remember something comparable, a couple of years ago, with the Ninja Gaiden developer or was it within Konami?



I can't argue with his logic. Super Mario Bros. is a cornerstone game.



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

Pristine20 said:
happydolphin said:

In view of the OP, what Inafune seems to be trying to say is not whether today's Mario games are overrated, good or not, but rather that Mario in all its heritage (he goes on to name his favorite, SMB3 on the NES) is part of a sort of developer's bible, from which a dev can take a pattern and work from it, so as to infuse their games with creative awesomeness.

I think that's what he means, and that would make perfect sense coming from the maker of Megaman and the upcoming MN9.

Holy mother of cherrypicking. The themes and story of Mario are full of stereotypes and cheesy art, but I think what Inafune was referring to was the creative  genius in gameplay innovation, as well as not taking itself too seriously. It's pretty transparent from the OP.

"Creative genius in gameplay innovation" is nothing more than jumping up and down while moving from left to right to me. That's as subjective as it gets. The points you praise Mario for are so subjective that it's pointless to argue them. Some see the Mona Lisa as a great work of art, others just see an ugly female portrait. Who is right? It's nice that you called my criticism "cherrypicking" but realise that it's valid. It brings home my point. When it comes to Miyamoto, everyone is quick to say 'shhh, hide the flaws' and sing about how great he supposedly is.

Mario is simple part of gaming history, just because you don't like it doesn't mean game designers should ignore it. Is the same as artists, every artist have seen the Mona Lisa, Birth of Venus, The Scream, etc. What that artist does may be completely different from this paintings, more modern and "original", but is simple part of the media they love and dedicated their life to. It's the same as video games, games like Grim Fandango, M.U.L.E, Space Invaders, Pacman, Super Mario, etc. are part of this history and any game designer this days should look at this games and what they represent to the media. 



Nintendo and PC gamer

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Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....

You are looking at it at the wrong angle, in his opinion, Mario is the equivalent of Beethoven (first musician that came to mind, could be any other), but that doesn't stop death metal bands or rappers for taking inspiration in his music and what it represents. 



Nintendo and PC gamer

Pristine20 said:
Mr Khan said:

Depends on what you mean by "do their jobs." If you're anyone involved with *touching* gameplay design, it should definitely be required that you play the most fundamental games that created modern gaming. I'd say (even though i haven't played or only barely played a few of these myself): Doom 1, Super Mario Bros 3, Legend of Zelda 1, Final Fantasy I, and one of the early Ultima games. Tetris and Pac-Man not wholly required but very severely recommended.

If a person is designing gameplay and worlds without having played these games, i would very much question their credentials.

That doesn't make any sense. I shouldn't be allowed to design cars if I haven't diven a Ford? Seriously, what industry works that way? I have exactly 0 of the games on your "required" list (only played tetris and pac-man)  so I'm somehow magically less qualified to design games because......? How does playing said games help you create a better  Madden 25? Most younger folks today are automatically disqualified by your "criteria". Makes no sense whatsoever.

Take off the nostalgia googgles and see things more objectively. Some of those games were really not that great but back then, there wasn't much in the way of alternatives like we have today.

Yes you shouldn't be allowed to drive cars if you haven't driven a model T, or at least taken one apart and put it back together (more important to car design). At least if you're devising consumer cars, anyway. Because if you don't understand why the people of the past succeeded, you will not succeed. If you don't understand why the Model T got millions of skeptical people in town and country alike to take a chance on this mysterious horseless carriage, you are removed from a design that will make your company succeed.

Younger folks can always play these games (type in Super Mario Bros into Google and you too could be playing in the next 15 seconds. If you want to go legal and own a 3DS, Wii, or Wii U, hop onto the Shop Channel, take you 5 minutes to start). The entire problem with the industry is that newer designers *aren't* playing these games. The earliest games are important because these are the games that got people to start gaming in the first place, so they must have done something right. There is this conceit in the development community currently (and your post buys into it as well, with the comment about there being more options today) that people want to play video games so somebody will play what they make because what else are they going to do? This is wrong thinking. Super Mario Bros wasn't so universally popular because nobody had anything else to play at the time. Super Mario Bros was so universally popular because it compelled people to get off their asses, go to a friend's house and play, beg their parents for an NES and start playing. It got people to play because it was that good. Understanding why, understanding what mystical hold this game (and others, i'm just floating it out as an example) had to hook people in, to bring them into a whole new medium, is the very essence of good game design, and if you do not understand how the medium created a space for itself, you are doomed to eternal mediocrity as a game designer, and certainly any hope of growing the medium and making your own mark on it will forever be out of your reach.

Madden 25 is a bad example. There are simply enough people that want to play a real NFL sim and Madden is their only option. EA (the bad new EA, not the good old EA that made Ultima and actually contributed to the industry instead of just leeching off of it and cannibalizing it) has created a monopoly, so their designers get the privelege of existing in a bubble where they can just shit out anything and people will play it because there is nothing else that meets that need.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

It is impossible to underestimate the importance of Nintendo franchises in the Industry. They helpd shape most of the genres and serve as a basis for excellent gamplay design!



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

ps3-sales! said:
Mario is overrated in my opinion.

As a character ? A specific sub-IP ?

You can´t just make a drive by jab like this without at least beeing a tad bit more precise !



Is he being serious?! A good game creator is limited by whether you play mario or not, lol.