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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii production to end in Japan

retroking1981 on 02 October 2013
Carl2291 said:

Gen leader dying off first? Not natural. Gen leader dying off after "only" 8 Years? Not natural.

NES lasted 20. SNES lasted 13. PS lasted 12 Years. PS2 lasted 13 Years.

Its far from natural. Oh, and as for your other post, it has nothing to do with the "hardcore" trying to shit on the Wii. Its a sales site and the Wii has fallen way short of what many expected only 5 Years ago, with the follow-up console tanking HARD.

Third party support is really important, when your 1st party studios are trying to support 2 platforms. That 3rd party stuff fills the gaps. It stops you having dry patches for Months on end, like Wii had in later Years and Wii U is having now.

Nintendo need 3rd party support, because firstly the 1st party studios arent capable of pushing out system selling software every couple of Months and secondly, because consumers want to play these 3rd party games.

In a way I'd argue the Wii was never the market leader.

Wii never went over 50% market share in total.

Therefore for a 3rd party a larger market existed on the HD consoles so developing a game for those made more sense than making one for the Wii.



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retroking1981 on 02 October 2013

For people saying Nintendo have dropped the Wii support wise can yoy honestly name some SNES games that came out after N64, or 64 after Cube etc?

There were very few if any and I'm betting it decreases each gen. The reason being is because its much harder/time consuming/more expensive to e.g. knock out a N64 game in 2002 compared to a NES game in 1992.

Nintendo have never been very good at supporting their older consoles once its successor is out.



cablebox on 02 October 2013
johnlucas said:

After Nintendo killed WiiConnect24 instead of absorbing it into the Nintendo Network, Wii was essentially finished right then & there.
I said Wii would sell AT LEAST 240 million & it WOULD have if Nintendo kept striking with that console.
It was outpacing every record the PS2 ever made.
Inevitable that it would have been the best-selling home console of all time if Nintendo kept striking.

I now understand why they stopped striking with it.
Wii U will be the beneficiary of that 240 million number instead.
Wii U finishes The Revolution started in Wii.
John Lucas

pfff putting the wii U down again I see, will you Sony fans ever learn jesus. Next gen consoles will sell at least 1 billion according to Microsoft and I'm willing to bet the wii U will do half that number, that's right 500 million. After this christmas the wii U will start selling 800k every week untill mid 2016 where it will reach the average of 1.2mill per week in japan alone, by 2020 the wii U will have sold between 400mill and 425mill the rest 100-75mill will come from legs after the wii Us is released.



foxtail on 02 October 2013
retroking1981 said:
For people saying Nintendo have dropped the Wii support wise can yoy honestly name some SNES games that came out after N64, or 64 after Cube etc?

Here are some bigger SNES games that came out the same year as the transition to the N64:

  • Final Fight 3
  • Lufia 2
  • Mega Man X3
  • Prince of Persia 2
  • Tetris Attack
  • Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
  • Super Mario RPG

 

Here's another partial list of SNES games that came out after the N64's release that I found on another board.  It uses the Japanese release date of the system and the earliest release dates for each game. - source

For 1996:

  • Lennus 2 (Asmik Corporation)
  • Marvelous: Mohitotsu no Takarajima (Nintendo)
  • Donkey Kong Country 3 (Nintendo)
  • Winter Gold (Nintendo)
  • Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow (Disney Interactive)
  • Disney's Pinocchio (Disney Interactive)
  • Street Fighter Alpha 2 (Capcom)
  • Marvel Super Heroes in War of the Gems (Capcom)
  • Star Ocean (Enix)
  • Dragon Quest III (Enix)
  • Harvest Moon (Natsume)
  • Energy Breaker (Taito)
  • Williams Arcade's Greatest Hits (Midway)
  • Madden NFL '97 (EA Sports)
  • NHL '97 (EA Sports)

For 1997:

  • Lost Vikings 2 (Blizzard)
  • Arkanoid: Doh It Again (Taito)
  • Kirby's Dream Land 3 (HAL Labs)
  • Itoi Shigesato no Bass Tsuri No. 1 (Nintendo)
  • Bushi Seiryuuden: Futari no Yuusha (Game Freak)
  • Madden NFL '98 (EA Sports)
  • NHL '98 (EA Sports)
  • Arcade's Greatest Hits: The Atari Collection (Midway)
  • Super Bomberman 5 (Hudson)

For 1998:

  • Wrecking Crew '98 (Nintendo)
  • Super Famicom Wars (Nintendo)
  • Rockman & Forte (Capcom)
  • Frogger (Majesco)

For 1999:

  • Power Lode Runner (Nintendo)
  • Power Soukoban (Nintendo)
  • Sutte Hakkun (cartridge version, Nintendo)
  • Kirby no KiraKira Kids (Nintendo)

For 2000:

  • Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (Nintendo)
  • Metal Slader Glory: Director's Cut (HAL Labs)


thismeintiel on 02 October 2013
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:
Sensei said:
Wii deserves to finish last.

Go PS3 and 360. Hit that 100M mark and push Wii to the bottom now. :D

PS3 definitely has a shot, but 360 is dying too fast.  It's down 25% YOY, so far.  If it remains at that rate, it will end the year at ~83.2M.  That will most likely be ~84.7M shipped.  With it's dwindling support from MS, as well as no more boosts due to price cuts, I see next year being even worse.  Even if somehow they only drop 30% YOY in 2014, that would only put them at a total of ~89M, possibly ~90M shipped.  Personally, I don't see MS continuing to make too many 360's after 2014, probably discontinuing it sometime in 2015. 

So, I think we're going to see the Ps3 possibly hit 100M-105M.  The Wii is definitely going to be stuck ~100.5M-101M.  And the 360 will probably end up ~90M-95M.  Damn close gen.

You realise 360 shipped 1m this past Q and PS3 shipped 1.1m right? Before that we have no solid data and last holiday they were similar numbers?

How do you no it has no more boosts from price cuts, it hasn't even had one since 2008, unlike the PS3 which has had 3. I agree PS3 has a much better shot at 100m and passing Wii, but they're closer than you think, and it's not as if we're not seeing harsher drops for the PS3 than what the numbers here suggest.

Why just use the past quarter, which is a slow period, anyway?  And yes they sold similar during the holidays, but that completely ignores the fact that the PS3 outsold it by ~1.6M for the entire year.  And earlier this year, the PS3 passed the 360 and before the year is even over has created an almost 1M sales gap.  It's obvious that the 360 is slowing down much faster than the PS3. 

Of course the PS3 is going to have more price cuts than the 360, since it started out $200 more expensive, after all.  It's also not too hard to not have to cut the entry price, when you already cut it to $199, which was lower than the Wii's at the time. As far as boosts go, the 360 had a $149 Bundle on Black Friday, as well as all other SKUs being reduced $50 by MS, but was still down YOY for the week.  However, the PS3 at $199 was up YOY for that week.

So no, they aren't closer than I think.  MS is dropping support for the 360 faster than Sony is for the PS3.  And just overall interest in the 360 is dropping quicker.  Then you also have to think about the fact that Sony will be pushing the PS3 in the same exact markets the PS2 excelled in later in its life, while I don't see the 360 continuing too far beyond 2014.



 

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retroking1981 on 02 October 2013
foxtail said:
retroking1981 said:
For people saying Nintendo have dropped the Wii support wise can yoy honestly name some SNES games that came out after N64, or 64 after Cube etc?

Here are some bigger SNES games that came out the same year as the transition to the N64:

  • Final Fight 3
  • Lufia 2
  • Mega Man X3
  • Prince of Persia 2
  • Tetris Attack
  • Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
  • Super Mario RPG

 

Here's another partial list of SNES games that came out after the N64's release that I found on another board.  It uses the Japanese release date of the system and the earliest release dates for each game. - source

For 1996:

  • Marvelous: Mohitotsu no Takarajima (Nintendo)
  • Donkey Kong Country 3 (Nintendo)
  • Winter Gold (Nintendo)

For 1997:

  • Itoi Shigesato no Bass Tsuri No. 1 (Nintendo)
  • Bushi Seiryuuden: Futari no Yuusha (Game Freak)

For 1998:

  • Wrecking Crew '98 (Nintendo)
  • Super Famicom Wars (Nintendo)

For 1999:

  • Power Lode Runner (Nintendo)
  • Power Soukoban (Nintendo)
  • Sutte Hakkun (cartridge version, Nintendo)
  • Kirby no KiraKira Kids (Nintendo)

For 2000:

  • Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (Nintendo)
  • Metal Slader Glory: Director's Cut (HAL Labs)


I appreciate the effort you've gone to for this but what I meant by Nintendo games  was games made by Nintendo themselves not 3rd parties. FIFA 2014 is coming out on Wii for example so it's still getting 'supported', just not by Nintendo themselves.

The games you listed initially were all made by 3rd parties with the possible exception of Tetris?

The second list refers to Japanese release dates as you stated and looking at the list I can't see many that left Japan and only 3 I'd call big games: Fire Emblem, SFC Wars and DKC3 and even that was made by Rare.

I'm from the UK and I honestly don't think any Nintendo made game came out after the N64 launch which was Marich '97. DKC3 and Street Fighter Alpha 2 were the last two high profile games and they were both Dec 1996 and neither of those were even made by Nintendo.

I'm not sure how it worked out for the US market but Japan seemed to get more support, although I have no idea about what most of those games were.

N64 and Gamecube were infinitely worse than SNES for this anyway so I'm still suprised people are moaning about Nintendo not supporting the Wii now that Wii U is out, they've been dropping support for older systems like this for generations. My point still stands that this is because its much harder/time consuming/more expensive to make a 3D game than it is to knock out Wreckin' Crew 98 for example.

Just look at the NES, games were so easy and cheap to make for that they were still bringing out new IP's (Kirby) post SNES.

I think it shows how much gaming has changed in a way. Back in the 8Bit days people still acitively played the older consoles. The Lion King for example came out on every system going. Both Nintendo and Sega 8Bits, handhelds and 16Bits. That was in 1994! That just wouldn't happen now.

Look at the OG XBOX, MS dropped that overnight! I know that won't happen with 360 but at the same time its not gonna be no PlayStation. Lets be honest here Sony are the KINGS of supporting HW after its time in the sun.



impertinence on 02 October 2013

Had a decent run



Seece on 02 October 2013
thismeintiel said:
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:
Sensei said:
Wii deserves to finish last.

Go PS3 and 360. Hit that 100M mark and push Wii to the bottom now. :D

PS3 definitely has a shot, but 360 is dying too fast.  It's down 25% YOY, so far.  If it remains at that rate, it will end the year at ~83.2M.  That will most likely be ~84.7M shipped.  With it's dwindling support from MS, as well as no more boosts due to price cuts, I see next year being even worse.  Even if somehow they only drop 30% YOY in 2014, that would only put them at a total of ~89M, possibly ~90M shipped.  Personally, I don't see MS continuing to make too many 360's after 2014, probably discontinuing it sometime in 2015. 

So, I think we're going to see the Ps3 possibly hit 100M-105M.  The Wii is definitely going to be stuck ~100.5M-101M.  And the 360 will probably end up ~90M-95M.  Damn close gen.

You realise 360 shipped 1m this past Q and PS3 shipped 1.1m right? Before that we have no solid data and last holiday they were similar numbers?

How do you no it has no more boosts from price cuts, it hasn't even had one since 2008, unlike the PS3 which has had 3. I agree PS3 has a much better shot at 100m and passing Wii, but they're closer than you think, and it's not as if we're not seeing harsher drops for the PS3 than what the numbers here suggest.

Why just use the past quarter, which is a slow period, anyway?  And yes they sold similar during the holidays, but that completely ignores the fact that the PS3 outsold it by ~1.6M for the entire year.  And earlier this year, the PS3 passed the 360 and before the year is even over has created an almost 1M sales gap.  It's obvious that the 360 is slowing down much faster than the PS3. 

Of course the PS3 is going to have more price cuts than the 360, since it started out $200 more expensive, after all.  It's also not too hard to not have to cut the entry price, when you already cut it to $199, which was lower than the Wii's at the time. As far as boosts go, the 360 had a $149 Bundle on Black Friday, as well as all other SKUs being reduced $50 by MS, but was still down YOY for the week.  However, the PS3 at $199 was up YOY for that week.

So no, they aren't closer than I think.  MS is dropping support for the 360 faster than Sony is for the PS3.  And just overall interest in the 360 is dropping quicker.  Then you also have to think about the fact that Sony will be pushing the PS3 in the same exact markets the PS2 excelled in later in its life, while I don't see the 360 continuing too far beyond 2014.

Because that's all we have.

I don't use VGC as it's estimates so it's pointless having this debate, but until we get a breakdown of PS3 sales in the last 6 Q's we don't know anything. Still can't believe people think PS3 has overtaken 360 yet Sony have said nothing. Will it happen? Yup, possibly even with this Q's results. If not then the holidays.

The rest, I can't take your opinion seriously so lets agree to disagree, they're simply not as far apart as you make them out to be.



 

foxtail on 02 October 2013
retroking1981 said:

I appreciate the effort you've gone to for this but what I meant by Nintendo games  was games made by Nintendo themselves not 3rd parties. FIFA 2014 is coming out on Wii for example so it's still getting 'supported', just not by Nintendo themselves.

The games you listed initially were all made by 3rd parties with the possible exception of Tetris?

The second list refers to Japanese release dates as you stated and looking at the list I can't see many that left Japan and only 3 I'd call big games: Fire Emblem, SFC Wars and DKC3 and even that was made by Rare.

I'm from the UK and I honestly don't think any Nintendo made game came out after the N64 launch which was Marich '97. DKC3 and Street Fighter Alpha 2 were the last two high profile games and they were both Dec 1996 and neither of those were even made by Nintendo.

I'm not sure how it worked out for the US market but Japan seemed to get more support, although I have no idea about what most of those games were.

N64 and Gamecube were infinitely worse than SNES for this anyway so I'm still suprised people are moaning about Nintendo not supporting the Wii now that Wii U is out, they've been dropping support for older systems like this for generations. My point still stands that this is because its much harder/time consuming/more expensive to make a 3D game than it is to knock out Wreckin' Crew 98 for example.

Just look at the NES, games were so easy and cheap to make for that they were still bringing out new IP's (Kirby) post SNES.

I think it shows how much gaming has changed in a way. Back in the 8Bit days people still acitively played the older consoles. The Lion King for example came out on every system going. Both Nintendo and Sega 8Bits, handhelds and 16Bits. That was in 1994! That just wouldn't happen now.

Look at the OG XBOX, MS dropped that overnight! I know that won't happen with 360 but at the same time its not gonna be no PlayStation. Lets be honest here Sony are the KINGS of supporting HW after its time in the sun.

I do agree with your point that game development time & cost are one reason we don't see as many post gen games for older systems, and did enjoy reading the rest of your post.

But if you ignore 3rd party games, even the list of PS2 games released after the PS3 looks less than impressive.

From the Sony 1st party studios there were:

  • lots of Sports games,
  • some late Japanese ports/re-releases,
  • and games that shared PSP development.  

The only post PS3 Sony game made exclusively for the PS2 that I can remember is God of War II, though I'm probably forgetting some..

Was there any other big Sony 1st party PS2 games released that were not already available in some form before November 2006, or also not available on the PSP?



thismeintiel on 03 October 2013
Seece said:
thismeintiel said:
Seece said:

You realise 360 shipped 1m this past Q and PS3 shipped 1.1m right? Before that we have no solid data and last holiday they were similar numbers?

How do you no it has no more boosts from price cuts, it hasn't even had one since 2008, unlike the PS3 which has had 3. I agree PS3 has a much better shot at 100m and passing Wii, but they're closer than you think, and it's not as if we're not seeing harsher drops for the PS3 than what the numbers here suggest.

Why just use the past quarter, which is a slow period, anyway?  And yes they sold similar during the holidays, but that completely ignores the fact that the PS3 outsold it by ~1.6M for the entire year.  And earlier this year, the PS3 passed the 360 and before the year is even over has created an almost 1M sales gap.  It's obvious that the 360 is slowing down much faster than the PS3. 

Of course the PS3 is going to have more price cuts than the 360, since it started out $200 more expensive, after all.  It's also not too hard to not have to cut the entry price, when you already cut it to $199, which was lower than the Wii's at the time. As far as boosts go, the 360 had a $149 Bundle on Black Friday, as well as all other SKUs being reduced $50 by MS, but was still down YOY for the week.  However, the PS3 at $199 was up YOY for that week.

So no, they aren't closer than I think.  MS is dropping support for the 360 faster than Sony is for the PS3.  And just overall interest in the 360 is dropping quicker.  Then you also have to think about the fact that Sony will be pushing the PS3 in the same exact markets the PS2 excelled in later in its life, while I don't see the 360 continuing too far beyond 2014.

Because that's all we have.

I don't use VGC as it's estimates so it's pointless having this debate, but until we get a breakdown of PS3 sales in the last 6 Q's we don't know anything. Still can't believe people think PS3 has overtaken 360 yet Sony have said nothing. Will it happen? Yup, possibly even with this Q's results. If not then the holidays.

The rest, I can't take your opinion seriously so lets agree to disagree, they're simply not as far apart as you make them out to be.

Wait, you don't think the PS3 has passed the 360, yet?  LOL!  You're right.  There's no reason to continue this debate.

Edit:  Actually, I'll do you a solid.  Here's my thread that contains all the info (the official numbers, not so much my estimates) on why we knew things were incredibly undertracked on here, and why they were changed.