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Forums - Politics Discussion - Just shut down the U.S Government already!

spurgeonryan said:
He would rather have the country collapse than make concessions about his baby.


Obamacare is nothing but a milquetoast pile of concessions already. There's hardly anything left of it to make concessions on. It's little more than a political football at this point, where either the republicans get to claim they preserved the 50s for another 20 years or democrats get to claim they "reformed" health care.

There's hardly a country on the planet other than the United States that would call this a health care plan to begin with.



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marley said:
LiquorandGunFun said:
marley said:
spurgeonryan said:
He would rather have the country collapse than make concessions about his baby.


Why should he have to make concessions about a law that has already passed through congress years ago, has survived MANY repeal attempts, and was held up by the SCOTUS?  It is wrong for the Republicans to hold the countries funding hostage by attaching it to the healthcare act.  They created this situation.  It's extortion and it's going to hurt a lot of regular people.


Its wrong to hold a gun to my head telling to buy health insurence.


1. Who's holding a gun to your head?  Did Obama personally drive to your house and pull a gun on you?  If you don't want insurance then don't get insurance and pay the tax.  Why should everyone else pay higher insurance premiums to cover your uninsured hospital visits? 

2. Regardless of your opinion of the bill, using an otherwise routine budget process to try to delay or kill the new health care law is extortion and wrong. 


Let's also remember that much of ObamaCare actually came from the Republican party. Individual mandate was the Republican alternative to HillaryCare's single payer system. Individual mandate was at the heart of the Republican plan for 2 decades, but now it's bad? That's right, the thing they're so up in arms about was THEIR idea to begin with. Democrats only adopted the mandate because they thought it would help them win Republican support (how ironic).  The Republicans voted NO on EVERYTHING, including the healthcare bill that they've been pushing for decades, simply to try to make Obama a one term president. They've even admitted to this strategy.  Their opposition to this bill is ENTIRELY political and nothing more.  They're going to hurt real people over some childish politics.  

 

Here's some interesting reading for you:
The Republican plot to obstruct President Obama began before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

 

^ That sums up their opposition to a bill that they've been pushing for decades.  They're obsession with stopping Obama at any cost is going to hurt them in the next election.

Gerrymandering means that it won't hurt most of them. The Senate, perhaps, is going to see some big hits, but most current GOP congressmen are quite secure in their districts, though it could be enough to be an even split if every competitive currently-red district goes blue in 2014.

That's why they're acting as they are: for most Republican congressmen who aren't tea-party faithful, the tea party is the only threat, not their actual opponent in the general election. In those who come from districts that are already solidly tea party, there is no threat at all.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I can't say I'm disappointed, but I am saddened it has come to this. At what point did this become okay?

Living in a Republican-dominated state, I have to put up with the representatives other people vote for. I had no part in electing these people, so I'm perfectly willing to cast the first stone here.

These people have the job of running the government. I find it indefensible that they've discarded their responsibilities in order to pursue a policy of pointless posturing.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

Nothing like having health care with the efficiency of the DMV and the compassion of the IRS.
Plus with 3 years to get this setup they cant even get it right with everything crashing and getting fucked up. It will not get better.

Its also funny to watch president dingle barry compare ACA to apple... LOL the difference is apple works and no one is mandated to buy an iphone and.or ipad. This assclown and his minions in the senate are just pathetic.



 

outlawauron said:
Vetteman94 said:
Gamecube said:
Option- said:
Cannot understand what's so bad about an insurence as an European. Many people will be helped!!


Unspoken rule of american politics, "The title of the bill states the opposite", aka the bait and switch. It's called the "Affordable Care Act", if it's such a great thing why are unions, congressman, senators and POTUS exempt. If it's so affordable why are congressional staffers getting special subsidies. People are also displeased because we do not like being forced to buy things. This you must buy unless you renounce citizenship or die.

Except insurance premiums are going down. 

Mine sure as hell aren't. Gone over 20% year over year.


Yeah, and that must be because of Obamacare!  Perhaps we should wait until it's implemented before blaming it for increases in insurance premiums (which have been happening for decades).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/kff11.png



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LiquorandGunFun said:
Nothing like having health care with the efficiency of the DMV and the compassion of the IRS.
Plus with 3 years to get this setup they cant even get it right with everything crashing and getting fucked up. It will not get better.

Its also funny to watch president dingle barry compare ACA to apple... LOL the difference is apple works and no one is mandated to buy an iphone and.or ipad. This assclown and his minions in the senate are just pathetic.


People wonder why we can't have civil discourse in government, when this is how we discuss it among ourselves.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

marley said:
outlawauron said:
Vetteman94 said:
Except insurance premiums are going down. 

 

Mine sure as hell aren't. Gone over 20% year over year.


Yeah, and that must be because of Obamacare!  Perhaps we should wait until it's implemented before blaming it for increases in insurance premiums (which have been happening for decades).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/kff11.png

Congrats on doing a swell job of putting words in my mouth. He said premiums are going down, they aren't. That's a lie.



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Excuse us, because of the shutdown in the USA the Flanders field graveyards (Belgium) are closed... 

I am surprised..



Shame shutting down the government doesn't end the war in Afghanistan or the drone killings in Pakistan. But seriously, this system needs to be changed. Constant deadlock in a country which is slowly falling apart is surely not a good thing. There is just much wrong with this "democracy". It's a shame the politicians don't lose any pay over this.



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Vetteman94 said:
Gamecube said:
Option- said:
Cannot understand what's so bad about an insurence as an European. Many people will be helped!!


Unspoken rule of american politics, "The title of the bill states the opposite", aka the bait and switch. It's called the "Affordable Care Act", if it's such a great thing why are unions, congressman, senators and POTUS exempt. If it's so affordable why are congressional staffers getting special subsidies. People are also displeased because we do not like being forced to buy things. This you must buy unless you renounce citizenship or die.

Except insurance premiums are going down. 


That's partly true, it's going down for older people who would normally have higher insurance costs. For everyone else it's going up, alot.