Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze are all core games.

Nope they are rated E for Everyone. Everyone=casuals, I thought this was well known by now

Nope they are rated E for Everyone. Everyone=casuals, I thought this was well known by now

I we really pulling the "If its not T or M rated its casual" card again?

And trying to to define casual gaming is moot since everyone has a different opinion on what is a casual game.

And since when did a casual game = bad?

Are we really pulling the "If its not T or M rated its casual" card again?

And trying to to define casual gaming is moot since everyone has a different opinion on what is a casual game.

And since when did a casual game = bad?

Well Monolith Soft's game will probably be rated T for "The Casuals" and Bayonetta 2 will probably be rated M for "Mostly Casuals."

Wind Waker HD is rated E10+, which I assume stands for Enfants (French word for children) aged 10 and up (perhaps a politically correct way of saying man-children). Either that, or it's Everyone (which we have established refers to casuals), and then a note to remind everyone that the game itself is 10+ years old.

It was a joke

Just to put this seperately because it bears repeating.

Nintendo Land offers gameplay that cannot be done on current consoles without either huge sacrifices or an obsecene price tag.  Sonic Lost World features completely reworked gameplay for the series.  Wonderful 101 is a completely new IP that plays differently than anything else out there.  Wii Fit U offers social integration that has not been seen on other consoles.  Wii Party U offers gameplay that is unique.  Super Mario 3D World offers 4 player coop, which is a first for the series, and if memory serves correctly the first time 4 player coop has been done (or done well) on any system. 

Are these experiences possible on other consoles?  Maybe.  Are they available on other consoles?  No.  Is there anything really similar on other consoles?  No not really.  Super Mario 3D World is easily as different from Galaxy (or 3D Land) as Killzone 3 is to Shadow Fall.  Unless you want to just come out and say you think graphics are what matters (and you're entitled to that opinion), you'll have to explain why none of these experiences are worth buying a console for but Killzone and Assassin's Creed Wind edition are.

Scisca said:

A) You give a list of games. I tell you what I think, then you say I'm wrong, because Nintendo Land, Game and Wario and Zombi U blah, blah, blah. Well take a look at your list and find Nintendo Land, Game and Wario or Zombi U (a hint - they are not there!!).

Ok, so I added games to it.  My first post was simply about the Wii U lineup in general.  So, I brought up games that would not be possible on other systems.  So, if you admit those experiences couldn't be done on another system, then you agree with me. Great, that's the point.  Games are possible on the Wii U that aren't possible elsewhere.

B) and C) Oh you think it's not happening? Then you're in for a huge surprise! And don't give me that "you underestimate the weight loss industry" or "you're basing 2013 predictions off of the 2000 market". You are the one who doesn't seem to understand the current market in this case. Wii Fit was huge, because it was a novelty, 

Wii Fit sold well because it was a novelty?  So... it was a novelty in 2012 when it sold over a million units? Novelties don't sell for 6 years. 

but at this point Ms is gonna eat it, cause it's just miles ahead. Even just working out with the Balance Board feels gimmicky, crappy and limited if you compare it to the new Kinect.  Add to that the new workout app on XO that gives you P90X, Insanity and two workout routines for women, which will be free till 2015.

I can't really speak much on the new XBox Fitness, because not much has been revealed about it.  But, if you're talking about P90X and Insanity, you clearly don't understand what made Wii Fit a success.  Wii Fit wasn't about people looking to get ripped and kill themselves with an intense workout.  It was about providing a light and fun workout to ease people into exercising.  It was a mellow light experience.  P90X is not that.  Comparing P90X to Wii Fit is like comparing Dark Souls to Angry Birds.  They cater to different audiences.

Additionally there will be other workout games like the Nike ones from X360, UFC instructor, etc., all better and more modern than the Wii Fit U. The market has changed, it has developed incredibly and is growing all the time, while Nintendo offering isn't even near to the top of the flock anymore.

Nintendo's offering isn't at the top of the flock?  Then what is?  UFC Trainer sold about 670,000 copies.  Wii Fit sold more copies in 2012 than Your Shape 2012.  Fit in six bombed.  There are no numbers for Nike Kinect Training, but I never saw it in NPD results, and Microsoft hasn't ever said a word about its success.  So, if Wii Fit is not at the top of the flock, what is?

Maybe the other games are technologically ahead of Wii Fit U.  I dunno, cause I haven't played them.  In terms of what the biggest fitness game is though, there is no doubt.

It will sell something (there are people with BBs after all and XO is going to be expensive at first), but won't come close to what Wii Fit was, just wait for XO to take that market with ease. Also arguing that Kinect is selling worse than Wii indicates anything when you just had a much better Kinect 2 unveiled and it being mandatory with every XO is really a very questionable argument.  

Hmmmmm... so you're saying that the Wii U is going to lose it's audience to the Kinect 2, but the performance of the Kinect is not relevant to that?  People lost interest in the Kinect very quickly, and considering the install base of the device is at 20 million, software sales are pretty pathetic.  The Kinect was clearly a novelty.

Forcing everyone to buy one might help, but ultimately it comes down to software support.  Microsoft doesn't have the tools to develop for that audience, and third parties don't have much motivation to develop Kinect 2.0 exclusive games which still cut off their potential audience greatly.

For the Wii U, you not only have Wii Fit U, but you also have Mario, Mario Kart, Mario 3D World, Wii Party, and so on.  It's not a hardcore console with a few random casual bits thrown in, it's a console that caters to that audience.  Just like having Black Ops II on the Wii U isn't enough to cut into Microsoft and Sony's audience, a few isolated casual titles aren't going to take the Wii audience away from Nintendo.

Also Wii is selling better than Wii U most of the time, so Kinect losing to it really is no shame :P You say chances of XO cutting into N market here are remote? I say it's abslutely impossible for that not to happen. Nintendo won't even come close to MS here in the long run, this market is MS for the taking.

Uh... well we're all entitled to our opinions, but if you want to convince other people, you should probably have some evidence or logic behind those...  MS hasn't competed with Nintendo in that sector in the past, and I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.  And it's absolutely impossible not to happen?  Don't make stupidly broad generalizations like that.  It makes you sound ridiculous. 

Nintendo had huge exposure with Wii... So what? It had huge exposure with NES and SNES and still N64 and GCN happened. Sony has huge exposure all the time and yet Vita is struggling.

About 10 million people played Mario Kart, and about 30 million people played Mario Kart Wii.  Assuming people liked Mario Kart, which based on the game's long legs we could safely assume, then those 30 million are more likely going to be interested in Mario Kart Wii U, and more likely to buy a Wii U.  Obviously not 100% of people who played Mario Kart are going to buy a Wii U when that game is available, but ignoring the success of Wii U's big franchises is silly.

D) and E) Graphics is the biggest part of moving to the next gen. It can easily be the only difference and totally justify it - you just have to accept that. NES -> SNES. PS/SS/N64 -> PS2/DC/GCN/Xbox. The only difference between these generations were graphics and yet nobody is denying that these were valid next gen products and that games from these newer consoles were "next gen". Yet, as Wii or DS has proven, graphics don't have to be the only thing and I respect that. The problem for Nintendo is that with Wii U they fail to deliver on the most basic front (graphics), so they have to deliver somewhere else and so far they are failing. There is a thin line between such a thing like the GamePad being considered a next gen idea and a stupid gimmick and it's all decided but the success of the product. You had Wii and you had Virtual Boy. Nobody says VB was a next gen product, it was just a crappy gimmick, cause nobody wanted it and it failed. So far the Gamepad is is on the verge, cause people just don't care about it enough, even though it's a far better idea (I love remote play).

To sum up, it's not like you say "better graphics are the only thing  that matter". But better graphics are absolutely enough. If you fail to give better graphics, you have to give something else instead to compensate for that. So far Nintendo is failing to do to that.

I'll agree that the Gamepad has not been utilized incredibly well to this point.  There are some clever ideas that I mentioned before, but as of yet they haven't really shown off its full potential.  In the same way though, XBox 360's graphics really weren't hugely impressive until Gears of War hit.  There's still plenty of time to show what the Gamepad will do.  Wii Party U uses it really well, and the community features on the Wii U will be far more accessible for the simple fact of having a touchscreen keyboard in your hands.  It's still only a year into this thing's life, and it took a considerable amount of time for 360, DS, PS3, and even the Wii to really find their groove.

Personally, I don't think graphics are enough to sell a console, particularly the level of improvement we've seen so far.  I'm not sure if the market feels that way.  Surely, the PS4 is doing really well in preorders, but I wonder how long they can sustain that momentum.  I think you'll see a huge opening that quickly slows down, assuming of course that there isn't a lot of new software introduced.

I'm not sure if the 3D Mario cuts it for me. It's a controversial idea for the game and I haven't seen enough of it. I'm not sure just how good the graphics are and how well it uses the GamePad - the two things that define being next gen on Wii U for me. In short, I think that a Wii U game is next gen when it has graphics that are superior to what I see on my PS3 (cause I believe Wii U is easily capable of that!) and (preferaly) it makes smart use of the GamePad (though this usually contradicts with Remote Play, so I'm actually sometimes willing to forgive it here, when at least the graphics are in place and GamePad has basic functions that make for a more smoother gameplay).

Graphics on Mario 3D World are really nice.  I've played it in person, and they're very shiny.  Nice details like the shadows of clouds overhead.  Don't know how you'd feel about them, but I was impressed.  At any rate, to the original point, there isn't a game like it on the PS3.  So, if we're talking about new experiences and not just better graphics, then why shouldn't we include 3D World?  Next gen is a buzzword that marketing executives came up with.  The point is this is an experience that you can't get (or get close to) on another system.  Whether you personally want that experience is really not important if we're talking about the market in general and not your particular tastes. 

Obviously, there are the minigames that don't need good graphics but focus solely on GamePad instead, but so far they don't seem to be much of a gamechanger, especially in the era of tablets and people just don't seem to case about them, so it's hard now to say whether they deserve to be called "next gen" experiences or are just "crappy gimmicks". Surely they are nowhere near to what Motion Gaming was this gen.

Also - if you really think that Wii U is so awesome, next gen, everything is so pretty and rosey, then why the hell is it struggling so bad, even eating Vita's dust and why don't people care about it at all?

Eating the Vita's dust?  Errrrr... not really.  Sold like 300K less.  Considering that the Vita has had a year more to build up its software library, already had a price cut, and has a weak holiday lineup, the Wii U is doing about as well.  There is little doubt, even among Vita owners, that the Wii U will outsell it this year.

And the Wii U is struggling because of the software.  What were the big franchises that made the Wii U a hit?  Wii Fit, Wii Sports, New Super Mario Bros, Mario Galaxy, Smash Brose, Mario Kart, etc.  How many of those franchises are available on the Wii U?  One.  New Super Mario Bros is a good franchise and the Wii branding still holds appeal, which is why the Wii U had a rather strong launch, but then software stopped and sales stopped. 

This is pretty much the same thing we saw happen with the 3DS.  System launched with 1 major franchise (Nintendogs), drought for about six months, price cut, Zelda remake, Mario holiday, and there you go.  The 3DS didn't have some magic Wii Sports level title to save it, and it didn't have a popular gimmick.  It just sold because people still want Nintendo's games.

To repeat myself

Now, riddle me this.  I'm a gamer who loves platformers and is lukewarm on shooters.  I don't play online much.  I have young kids I want to play with, and a girlfriend who was into the Wii stuff, but isn't going to sit around and play Halo with me.  I had a Wii, and I was one of the many who loved Mario Kart, NSMB, and Brawl.  There are no new games for my Wii, and I want a new console.  Which one should I buy?

Bottom line is the Wii U offers something that the other consoles don't.  Pick up and play gaming, local multiplayer, games you can play with kids and family, platformers, and casual games.  I think these things are still in demand, and once these experiences are on the Wii U, people will come.  Sony and Microsoft have shown that they could not appeal to these markets in the past, and their launch lineups show nothing that will change that.  The PS4 and XBone look appealing solely to the hardcore gamers thus far which leaves a huge opportunity for Nintendo.

Arguing with you sometimes feels like arguing with a 3yo, but ok...If you don't want to argue with me, then don't argue with me.  Nobody has a gun to your head.  If there is something you'd rather be doing, then go do that.   Have I insulted you at all here?  Simply disrespectful, and insults are usually a sign that someone doesn't have a leg to stand on.  Here's a tip for you, don't accuse someone of immaturity while resorting to petty insults.