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Forums - Nintendo - Shin'en: If you can't make great looking games on Wii U, it's not the hardware's fault

fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
snowdog said:
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
Okay, a few important things I need to add here. Firstly, Expresso isn't 3 x Broadways duct-tapped together with a raised clock (although if it were that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. We know almost as little about Expresso as we do about Latte. Secondly, Expresso surprised the Bink developers by running Bink 2 - Expresso is no slouch.

And lastly, and by no means least, you would be wrong not to expect mind blowing physics from Expresso. The link below demonstrates how well Broadway could handle physics if a developer put their mind to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41w-bbtVFKE

How about a nicer framerate ?



Lol...really..? Over 400 objects and you expect 30fps..? The framerate is fine in the second part with zero gravity when he turns the hoover thingy on. For a console that's closer to a 6th gen machine than a 7th gen machine in terms of power that physics demonstration is impressive.

That's decent I guess but no as good as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Xz9u03AZY which ran at a fine 30fps with thousands of objects to boot.

How about some nice water simulation from Just cause 2 ?



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curl-6 on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Yeah you got a problem that riddick is more technically impressive than either okami or shadow of the colossus.

And Rogue Squadron III is more technically impressive than Riddick. ;)

Bad textures and lower resolution is more impressive ?

More polygons, more effects, and a higher framerate are.



forethought14 on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:

Xenon does 70 Gflops.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2010/08/26/xbox-360-vs-playstation-3-the-hardware-throwdown

BTW bobcat is totally different from Jaguar. (The PS4/X1 can pull off 100 Gflops like I said earlier.)

http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/19d9yc/how_powerful_is_the_amd_jaguar_cpu_for_the_ps4/

Flops depends on SIMD engines and you know this 

Read my other edits at last post.

Edit: The architecture would have to be the same in order for the WII U to play WII games and plus they can't change anything drastic otherwise bye bye to backwards compatibility.

No it's not, Jaguar is an upgrade from Bobcat, still within the same architectures, just enhanced with 15% higher efficiency, 4-cores instead of 2, more cache, and several other enhancements. Nothing completely different, and nothing life-changing. 

70? I've heard 115GFLOPS, and googling the CPU gives me 115GFLOPS..... 

PS4/X1 Can pull off 100 GFLOPS with 8 or 6 cores? 2 cores are reserved for the OS just so you know....

What does that have to do with anything? Architectures of Xenon and Cell are different compared to Espresso. PS360 are based on a G5 design (terrible design), while Espresso is based on a G3, not the same family at all. FLOPS comparisons aren't comparable at all either. If that's the case, then explain to me how YOU think a 15GFLOP Espresso can even hope to run games as well as 115GFLOPS CPUs like Xenon? 

Most of your edits are "Lolololo look how weak it is" type of posts. And I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why the figures of Espresso and Jaguar are that close, yet Espresso apparently has "much worse" SIMD? 



curl-6 on 22 September 2013
ninjablade said:
FrancisNobleman said:
fatslob-:O said:

It's based on the fact that chipworks took a die shot and digital foundry did an analysis on it. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

The similarities to the AMD RV770 basically means it has 16 TMU's compared to the PS3's 24 TMU's. 

Like I said these small caches are fine if you attempt tiled rendering(software wise ofcourse).


The similarities between ps3 and a george foreman griller basically means it is not a console at all.

 

....

 

Next time make claims on facts. Only wii u devs under nda's know how many tmus it has, you surelly are not included in that category.

wiiu has 8 tmus based on neogaf anyalisis http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59514681&postcount=5604 and based on recent dev comment from black forest games which actually goes into detail about wiiu power this is most likely right

Neogaf is not a legitimate source. It's speculation by a bunch of nobodies.



JoeTheBro on 22 September 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

wiiu has 8 tmus based on neogaf anyalisis http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59514681&postcount=5604 and based on recent dev comment from black forest games which actually goes into detail about wiiu power this is most likely right

Neogaf is not a legitimate source. It's speculation by a bunch of nobodies.

Neogaf is super legit dude.

Also didn't you hear they said Half Life 3 is being announced tomorrow? Party!



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curl-6 on 22 September 2013
JoeTheBro said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

wiiu has 8 tmus based on neogaf anyalisis http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59514681&postcount=5604 and based on recent dev comment from black forest games which actually goes into detail about wiiu power this is most likely right

Neogaf is not a legitimate source. It's speculation by a bunch of nobodies.

Neogaf is super legit dude.

Also didn't you hear they said Half Life 3 is being announced tomorrow? Party!

The word neogaf has three consonants = half life 3 confirmed!



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
forethought14 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Xenon does 70 Gflops.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2010/08/26/xbox-360-vs-playstation-3-the-hardware-throwdown

BTW bobcat is totally different from Jaguar. (The PS4/X1 can pull off 100 Gflops like I said earlier.)

http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/19d9yc/how_powerful_is_the_amd_jaguar_cpu_for_the_ps4/

Flops depends on SIMD engines and you know this 

Read my other edits at last post.

Edit: The architecture would have to be the same in order for the WII U to play WII games and plus they can't change anything drastic otherwise bye bye to backwards compatibility.

No it's not, Jaguar is an upgrade from Bobcat, still within the same architectures, just enhanced with 15% higher efficiency, 4-cores instead of 2, more cache, and several other enhancements. Nothing completely different, and nothing life-changing. 

70? I've heard 115GFLOPS, and googling the CPU gives me 115GFLOPS..... 

PS4/X1 Can pull off 100 GFLOPS with 8 or 6 cores? 2 cores are reserved for the OS just so you know....

What does that have to do with anything? Architectures of Xenon and Cell are different compared to Espresso. PS360 are based on a G5 design (terrible design), while Espresso is based on a G3, not the same family at all. FLOPS comparisons aren't comparable at all either. If that's the case, then explain to me how YOU think a 15GFLOP Espresso can even hope to run games as well as 115GFLOPS CPUs like Xenon? 

Most of your edits are "Lolololo look how weak it is" type of posts. And I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why the figures of Espresso and Jaguar are that close, yet Espresso apparently has "much worse" SIMD? 

@Bold here's where your wrong, Jaguar features wider SIMD units as evidenced by its AVX extension while also having wayyy more than 2 cores.

Can I like also get some source on how those cores are based off of a G5 please ?

Developers probably have strip some workloads for the wii u processor to get it running. How do you think developers got games running on older consoles ?  BTW the CPU isn't all important for purposes of of rendering today. 

can you like show some evidence as to the figures for JAGUAR AND NOT BOBCAT are close to the espresso.

BTW those were comparisons Whether you like it or not I can still accept the fact that it has a weak cpu plus I'm seriously worred about the WII U in the future unless ofcourse nintendo drops support easily.



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
FrancisNobleman said:
fatslob-:O said:

It's based on the fact that chipworks took a die shot and digital foundry did an analysis on it. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

The similarities to the AMD RV770 basically means it has 16 TMU's compared to the PS3's 24 TMU's. 

Like I said these small caches are fine if you attempt tiled rendering(software wise ofcourse).


The similarities between ps3 and a george foreman griller basically means it is not a console at all.

 

....

 

Next time make claims on facts. Only wii u devs under nda's know how many tmus it has, you surelly are not included in that category.

wiiu has 8 tmus based on neogaf anyalisis http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59514681&postcount=5604 and based on recent dev comment from black forest games which actually goes into detail about wiiu power this is most likely right

Neogaf is not a legitimate source. It's speculation by a bunch of nobodies.

He's lying LOL. Do not listen to that dude. 16 TMU's seems more realistic given it's die size.



snowdog on 22 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
Okay, a few important things I need to add here. Firstly, Expresso isn't 3 x Broadways duct-tapped together with a raised clock (although if it were that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. We know almost as little about Expresso as we do about Latte. Secondly, Expresso surprised the Bink developers by running Bink 2 - Expresso is no slouch.

And lastly, and by no means least, you would be wrong not to expect mind blowing physics from Expresso. The link below demonstrates how well Broadway could handle physics if a developer put their mind to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41w-bbtVFKE

How about a nicer framerate ?



Lol...really..? Over 400 objects and you expect 30fps..? The framerate is fine in the second part with zero gravity when he turns the hoover thingy on. For a console that's closer to a 6th gen machine than a 7th gen machine in terms of power that physics demonstration is impressive.

That's decent I guess but no as good as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Xz9u03AZY which ran at a fine 30fps with thousands of objects to boot.

How about some nice water simulation from Just cause 2 ?



And why are you comparing PS3 and 360 demos/games to the Wii..? Of course the physics are going to be more impressive. My point was that if Broadway is capable of impressive physics without Havok middleware then impressive physics should be expected with Expresso even without Havok middleware and GPGPU use. It won't be as good as physics on the PS4 and One obviously but it should still impress



fatslob-:O on 22 September 2013
snowdog said:
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
fatslob-:O said:
snowdog said:
Okay, a few important things I need to add here. Firstly, Expresso isn't 3 x Broadways duct-tapped together with a raised clock (although if it were that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. We know almost as little about Expresso as we do about Latte. Secondly, Expresso surprised the Bink developers by running Bink 2 - Expresso is no slouch.

And lastly, and by no means least, you would be wrong not to expect mind blowing physics from Expresso. The link below demonstrates how well Broadway could handle physics if a developer put their mind to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41w-bbtVFKE

How about a nicer framerate ?



Lol...really..? Over 400 objects and you expect 30fps..? The framerate is fine in the second part with zero gravity when he turns the hoover thingy on. For a console that's closer to a 6th gen machine than a 7th gen machine in terms of power that physics demonstration is impressive.

That's decent I guess but no as good as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Xz9u03AZY which ran at a fine 30fps with thousands of objects to boot.

How about some nice water simulation from Just cause 2 ?



And why are you comparing PS3 and 360 demos/games to the Wii..? Of course the physics are going to be more impressive. My point was that if Broadway is capable of impressive physics without Havok middleware then impressive physics should be expected with Expresso even without Havok middleware and GPGPU use. It won't be as good as physics on the PS4 and One obviously but it should still impress

I won't my breath that it will be able to achieve something on the lines of tressfx in the tomb raider reboot plus that feature is PC only and the game came out like 6 months ago.