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Forums - General Discussion - Evidence for the existence of God

Also note that in Job is the only time we see Satan come before God. Now if I remember correctly (all from memory at this time) the reason God allowed Satan to test Job was Job's pride. Ever hear of the saying "Pride comes before a fall"?

And I almost pity you for not being able to see the goodness of God. I pray that some day he will let you see Him for who he truly is. Until then you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.



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I will quote this for style points:

r2007 said:

purity? if god is pure and he created everything then where did evil came from?

God created every person and every being (angels, etc.) with a choice: to follow God or to not follow God. The not following God part... that is where the evil comes from. James 1:17 says, "Every good and true thing is given to us from heaven, coming from the Father of lights, with whom there is no change or any shade made by turning." So we know that everything good comes from God. If you are not following God, then you can be a source of evil.



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Eomund said:

And I almost pity you for not being able to see the goodness of God. I pray that some day he will let you see Him for who he truly is. Until then you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.

Don't try to be morally superior. It's unworthy of someone who sees goodness in God. 

I can tell you one thing: I have no problems with God. I have problems with men who, seeing such goodness, can't change themselves enough to live peacefully together. jews, muslims and catholics have the same God and they can't stand each other.  If men tried more to behave like their gods tell them to, and tried less to impose on others their superiority, perhaps the world, at the end of each day, could be a better place to live in.



Eomund said:
Also note that in Job is the only time we see Satan come before God. Now if I remember correctly (all from memory at this time) the reason God allowed Satan to test Job was Job's pride. Ever hear of the saying "Pride comes before a fall"?

And I almost pity you for not being able to see the goodness of God. I pray that some day he will let you see Him for who he truly is. Until then you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.

 Pity? Pity? Pity? Real Pity?



Eomund said:
Don't forget to quote in context. Matthew 10:26-42 is where you get that quote. Jesus said it in the context of persecution and fear of persecution. this the entire passage:

[passage deleted for space considerations]

So the context of what Jesus was saying was clearly to encourage people to stand up for His sake so that they may have true life after death. During this time period the new believers were very harshly persecuted and put to death (Roman Persecutions). He was leaving words to live by.
It seems to me that the passage was more or less split into three (maybe four) parts:  the first part was "don't be afraid of persecution"; the second part was "don't hesitate to go against your family in following me" (and defying your family back then was HUGE) and "those who refuse to follow will get left in the cold"; and the final part was "my followers will be rewarded, but people who are nice to my followers will also get rewarded". 

What fkusumot's quote was from was the second part, so saying "well that quote is really about what the final part was talking about" seems to me to be disingenuous. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Playstation fans would say God is either Dante from Devil May Cry. Microsoft fans would say God is Masterchief from Halo. Nintendo fans would say God is Mario.
I would say God is all three.



Eomund said:
Also note that in Job is the only time we see Satan come before God. Now if I remember correctly (all from memory at this time) the reason God allowed Satan to test Job was Job's pride. Ever hear of the saying "Pride comes before a fall"?

And I almost pity you for not being able to see the goodness of God. I pray that some day he will let you see Him for who he truly is. Until then you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.
As I recall, Job was miding his own business being the goodiest goody-two-shoes to walk the earth and GOD went bragging to Satan about how much Job loved him.  (Five minutes of Internet searching later ...)

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

So yeah, Job was minding his own business when God and Satan got to talking; God bragged about how much Job loved him; Satan said "well I bet he wouldn't love you if you were mean to him"; and God said, "OH YEAH?? Well go do your worst (without personally hurting him) and I bet he'll still love me!"  And then Satan went and killed Job's entire family and laid waste all his belongings. 

"In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly."

AND THEN Satan said "well yeah but I bet he'd hate you if he himself was hurt!"  And God said "OH YEAH?? Well go do your worst (without killing him) and I bet he'll still love me!"

And so on.  So to sum up:  God's a douchebag in this story.  Satan didn't even have to WORK at it.  After two sentences God was letting him torture His most loyal follower just to prove he would still love God.   



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Eomund said:

And I almost pity you for not being able to see the goodness of God. I pray that some day he will let you see Him for who he truly is. Until then you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.


I could just as easily say I pity you, but I won't since it would lead to unneccessary arrogance and condescension.



Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Playstation fans would say God is either Dante from Devil May Cry. Microsoft fans would say God is Masterchief from Halo. Nintendo fans would say God is Mario.
I would say God is all three.
Playstation fans are polytheists.  Or maybe more than one religion.  Anyway, DMC is WAAAY down the list of best-sellers on PS consoles. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

@Eoumund: I was talking with you with respect,but you have show your real and intolerant face,just like the most of the followers of any religion,maybe God have mercy of you misunderstanding who is really him,not following like a sheep what your religious leaders told you.
And it's a fact,in the bible -that you believe so blindly-it´s everything about Job and the injustice to which he was subjected by God,only for prove something to satan,something that God already know.
I believe in God,but not in a contradictory one like you and many blinded people belief,sad that the religions torn apart the people most than everything in history.I don't think God wants that,or yes?