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Forums - General Discussion - God doesn't prevent terrible things because?

 

Please choose wisely....

A. He can't 24 6.96%
 
B. He doesn't want to 86 24.93%
 
C. He causes them 22 6.38%
 
D. He doesn't exist. 213 61.74%
 
Total:345

Humans are fully capable of helping other humans. Most of us just choose not to. We are supposed to be self sufficient. Free will and such. But we cant let a year pass without another war starting.



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The Fury said:

dsgrue3 said:

 Except omniscience implies foreknowledge...thus negating your entire argument.

Licence said:

If God does not know which possibility Cain will make, there is something he does not know. Hence, he is not omniscient.

But this goes goes back to SHADE's orginal answer to the idea that God was testing Cain. God knows Cain killed Abel, he knows the future of what Cain will do however God cannot affect Cain's free will of choice, to say that he did kill him or that he didn't.

All these things point to the same arguement  that Free Will and omniscience contridict each other. You cannot have one with the other. I see it as the past has happened so God knows. The future hasn't happened but God knows all outcomes. The futures are determined by man's free will but it doesn't matter which free will choice man makes as God knows them all.

 

It's not possible to *test* Cain because god knows the answer already. He know which response will be chosen. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that god is not omniscient.

Your argument is that there are certain possible choices that god knows about, but does not know which one Cain will choose. But re-read that last statement - "does not know." By not knowing something, your position is that god is not omniscient. 



The Fury said:

But this goes goes back to SHADE's orginal answer to the idea that God was testing Cain. God knows Cain killed Abel, he knows the future of what Cain will do however God cannot affect Cain's free will of choice, to say that he did kill him or that he didn't.

All these things point to the same arguement  that Free Will and omniscience contridict each other. You cannot have one with the other. I see it as the past has happened so God knows. The future hasn't happened but God knows all outcomes. The futures are determined by man's free will but it doesn't matter which free will choice man makes as God knows them all.

 


You can't have free will and determinism at the same time. That is basic knowledge.

If God is omniscient then he knew every detail of what would happen on and around Earth before time as we know it started. The way things were, are and will be were completely determined by God, as he made the decision, again, before time started. I.e. had he decided to change some details of his creation we would have made completely different decisions throughout our lives. But he settled with our current situation.



The Fury said:

... however God cannot affect Cain's free will of choice, to say that he did kill him or that he didn't.


LOL, that seems like a stretch. God does not want to intrude on Cain's free will of answering a question posed by God himself in the first place? Heavens no, this makes no sense to me. Perhaps if God was trying to get Cain to expose this information to a non-omniscient third party? Who knows?

I don't agree that free will and omniscience have to be contradictory. The foreknowledge of someone's actions do not make that action an act without free will. But then again, I also do not believe in the existence free will or omniscient beings, so whether they contract each other is a pure academic question for me.



dsgrue3 said:

It's not possible to *test* Cain because god knows the answer already. He know which response will be chosen. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that god is not omniscient.

Your argument is that there are certain possible choices that god knows about, but does not know which one Cain will choose. But re-read that last statement - "does not know." By not knowing something, your position is that god is not omniscient. 

I'm not saying there are certain possible choices God knows about, he knows of all possible choices and outcomes. It doesn't matter to him which Cain chooses as all are a potential reality.

I know my last statement and it's badly worded, I'll admit that. I was mainly trying to form a counter arguement to the idea that an omniscient being had to reason to question someone.



Hmm, pie.

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Who said it was G-D's job to do so in the first place? Typical flawed logic



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

You can't have free will and determinism at the same time. That is basic knowledge.

If God is omniscient then he knew every detail of what would happen on and around Earth before time as we know it started. The way things were, are and will be were completely determined by God, as he made the decision, again, before time started. I.e. had he decided to change some details of his creation we would have made completely different decisions throughout our lives. But he settled with our current situation.

Settled? Is this really the best option for this creation? Because it's a crap one. This is where my idea that Gods knows all possible outcomes of future events and the fact Free Will shapes this.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
dsgrue3 said:

It's not possible to *test* Cain because god knows the answer already. He know which response will be chosen. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that god is not omniscient.

Your argument is that there are certain possible choices that god knows about, but does not know which one Cain will choose. But re-read that last statement - "does not know." By not knowing something, your position is that god is not omniscient. 

I'm not saying there are certain possible choices God knows about, he knows of all possible choices and outcomes. It doesn't matter to him which Cain chooses as all are a potential reality.

I know my last statement and it's badly worded, I'll admit that. I was mainly trying to form a counter arguement to the idea that an omniscient being had to reason to question someone.

Okay, so now you're saying that all possible choices and outcomes are seen but god doesn't know which will be picked? That's still not knowing something, which negates omniscience.

Potential reality - the implication here is that there are probabilities associated to them, which implies uncertainty. Again, you keep admitting that god does not know things. 



Licence said:
The Fury said:

... however God cannot affect Cain's free will of choice, to say that he did kill him or that he didn't.

LOL, that seems like a stretch. God does not want to intrude on Cain's free will of answering a question posed by God himself in the first place? Heavens no, this makes no sense to me. Perhaps if God was trying to get Cain to expose this information to a non-omniscient third party? Who knows?

You mean... like Cain himself? Get Cain to highlight to himself what he had done? An interesting thought indeed.



Hmm, pie.

I'm not sure if God doesn't exist, if God is simply dense, or if he is Evil. None of those three pictures are very flattering.



Love and tolerate.