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Forums - Movies & TV - United States or Japan: Who's animation is better?

 

Who's Cartoons are better?

America 107 21.84%
 
Japan 368 75.10%
 
Other 13 2.65%
 
Total:488
iron_megalith said:
darkknightkryta said:
iron_megalith said:

US Animation has shifted to 3D so I dunno why we're gonna compare quality 2D animation with quality 3D animation.

Though I must say, US 2D animation pioneered so much foundation that it gave ideas and aspects for Japanese 2D animation to flourish.

Sad to say though US 2D animation is dead.

Just gonna be a nerd and dump some info for Japanese Animators I really admire. Maybe later....

Yeah, this is what bugs me the most.  American made animation is normally top notch.  But then you have these cartoons that were so terrible in the animation departments, made my head hurt.

Whilst I believe that to be true for 3D animation; 2D animation in US is not top notch anymore. There's a lack of sense of evolution in their style of animation. It's really dated.

The only recent animation I can remember to associate with US animation is Avatar. However some parts of it where outsorced to other countries. Now Korra season 2 is getting help from Studio Pierrot(Bleach, Naruto, Yuyu Hakusho) IIRC. So it's not really a full american production.

The likes of Spongebob were decent. However the most memorable US animation I can note is the old Tom & Jerry shows. Those were really really good.

Now for some little trivia.

Japan might be getting praised for a couple of great works but the production conditions for animation there are usually so damn constricted. I'm sure you guys encountered quality drops when watching anime.

It's rare for them get so much time before the thing airs. Some even stretch as low as 6 months production time. If it's an action anime it's gonnna get bottlenecked by terrible scheduling issues hence getting a lot of drop in quality. Now some studio wants to challenge that and try something new with producing a 13 episode show within 3 months time. Spells disaster if you know how these things usually work but it's gonna be interesting if they pull it through.

On a side note. I dunno how US animation gets produced back then but in Japan the show itself is funded by sponsors. Most of the shows are aired late night. And I mean late night. Some even air as late as 23:30 - 24:30. The reasoning behind here is that the slot is much cheaper. Here the TV networks don't alot or fund the animation shows. The production committee buys the slots for the show. Usually if it's an adaptation, the ones who will surely be a part for funding are the owner of the source materials. So with that, budget for these shows are usually very tight. They make do by spreading quality episodes althrough out the series. But of course some of the drops will be very noticeable, others won't be(magically). And that's one of the special things about Japanese animation. They developed neat tricks on how to depict motion with fewer frames without hampering the fluidity of the scene.

It's really admireable that even with constrictions like those(I'm not even listing the other things I know) they still tend to produce quality animation generally.

Pardon if this thing goes a little out of topic and my sentences are a little scattered. I should really be sleeping now. :P

For more insights watch this video.

 

I was refering to Disney for more current; even then it's ristricted to movies.  Disney full featured movies are probably the best you'll see worldwide.  They also made one animated feature film in the past 10 years which is terrible (Like full grade production).  But stuff earlier on like Fleischer's stuff and Loony Toons/Merrie Melodies.  Those pioneered animation.  Then everyone switched over to Japan back in the 80s and early 90s.  Korra's animated in Korea.  I think Avatar was done in Korea too.  But I'm sure they want Korra produced fast, it takes a year to make an episode so they might be outsourcing to Japan as well.  I hope Japan figures this out cause they're outsourcing to Korea too.  I don't think Naruto is animated in Japan anymore for instance.  Though it's interesting about cartoons; the U.S. uses toy sales (Young Justice was pretty much cancelled due to toy sales vs high ratings that it has).  Japan uses sponsors (From what you're saying).



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spurgeonryan said:
Trunkin said:

I must specify that very few Anime can stand up to the greatness that was Batman: The Animated Series!


I think tht most 90's cartoons alone beat Japanimation.

 

Spiderman on Fox, Batman on Fox, Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Eek the Cat, Conan the adventurer, Mighty Max, Turtles, Reboot ( canada), Chip and Dales, Rugrats, Ren and Stimpy, Beevis and Butthead, Simpsons ( 80's as well), Tail Spin, etc.

That is only a fraction of them from off the top of my head.

Phew, I wouldn't consider half of those any good at all.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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Reading through these posts really makes me want to try out some of these anime series. I admit I'm not well versed in Japanese animated TV at all.

If we're talking movies (a subject on which I can speak with much more confidence) the edge goes to United States, mostly for longevity. 75 years of animated feature films from Disney -- including masterworks like Pinocchio and Beauty and the Beast -- plus the golden years of Pixar (fading fast) and Warner Bros. and DreamWorks beat the combined output from Japan, even if individual movies -- Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Metropolis, Grave of the Fireflies, Paprika, etc. -- are outstanding.

However, no studio in the United States, or elsewhere in the world for that matter, has anyone close to the genius of Hayao Miyazaki.



darkknightkryta said:
seiya19 said:
darkknightkryta said:
I'm not sure if I should crush Ryan's hopes, but all those cartoons are animated in Japan... or Korea.

You know, after becoming used to anime, I thought there was something reminiscent of it in the animation of ThunderCats and SilverHawks (specially the openings) as well as some parts of Batman: The Animated Series. It just looked particularly good to me...

Confirming said suspicion on Wikipedia many years later put a smile on my face. I knew it !

Sunrise actually did a few of those episodes.  I actually found those episodes to have been the best animation wise.

Huh, so it was Sunrise themselves... All I knew was that some Japanese animators were involved in it, and then went on to work on Cowboy Bebop.

I should rewatch the series sometime. I still consider it to be the best Batman adaptation I've seen.

@iron_megalith

Thanks for the video ! It's not common to find this kind of simple, yet detailed technical explanations for things that come out of Japan...

By the way, for some reason, I many times end up liking more "static" scenes than fluid ones in anime. I think it depends more on how its done than anything. For example, while I do enjoy the style used on that Naruto and Sasuke battle from the video, I think I enjoy other previous battles more that had a more static style. The way the characters get somehow "deformed" with those fast motion scenes is not something I always like... On the other hand, that Cowboy Bebop scene was excellent.

It's similar to the kind of animation fighting games use, with limited frames that give an illusion of fluidity, as you mentioned before. Sometimes less is more...

All this also reminds me of how some anime did things in the 90s, with some highly detailed segments of a few seconds being used throughout a series, like in Saint Seiya and Sailor Moon, or years later by Card Captor Sakura. Personally, I was never bothered by this practice because I found them to be memorable while the rest of the series kept a certain standard of quality. It's when you have static elements being repeated without any justification and too often when it becomes a problem, like in the Mekai Hen OVAs from Saint Seiya...



As someone who outgrew the 90s cartoons mentioned by the OP not much after the 90s ended, I gotta say , it's Japan.
And not just because of its execution of ridiculously unique ideas like Berserk, Revolutionary Girl Utena, or Legend of the Galactic heroes, or Paranoia Agent. Even the mainstream stuff like Code Geass, Gurren Lagann, Naruto is done pretty well.
And for anyone under the impression that Anime movies is just Studio Ghibli, I would recommend ANYTHING by Satoshi Kon or Mamoru Hosoda.
I do think to certain age, American cartoons are certainly more enjoyable, with due to the clear-cut animations and starightforward plots. But as the target demographic rises to mid-teens and beyond, Japan really takes off.
Also, I read a post saying the cultural impact of Looney Tunes alone trumps anything out of Japan. Doraemon is the specially appointed Anime Ambassador brought in to help Japan's bid for 2020 Olympics



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Mr Khan said:
nuckles87 said:
RolStoppable said:
America, because they actually bother to animate them. Anime is a lot of still pictures stringed together.


It sounds like your basing your opinion on Speed Racer and some long running shonen. Anime has produced some of the most fluid animation around. Just take a look at Cowboy Bebop, Mitchiko & Hatchin, Tiger & Bunny, Eureka 7, Soul Eater, Black Lagoon and Samurai 7.

Red Line.

I tend to care much more about stories and characters than production quality (i notice poor quality, but high quality usually doesn't wow me especially). But damn, Red Line.

lol, that is the most goregous thing 2D animation has ever produced, but I think fluid animation is to be expected from a movie.

spurgeonryan said:







Trunkin said:

I must specify that very few Anime can stand up to the greatness that was Batman: The Animated Series!




I think tht most 90's cartoons alone beat Japanimation.


 


Spiderman on Fox, Batman on Fox, Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Eek the Cat, Conan the adventurer, Mighty Max, Turtles, Reboot ( canada), Chip and Dales, Rugrats, Ren and Stimpy, Beevis and Butthead, Simpsons ( 80's as well), Tail Spin, etc.


That is only a fraction of them from off the top of my head.




 

 

I think a lot of people are letting their nostalgia goggles get the better of them, because only a handful of 90s animation really holds up to scrutiny. I actually rewatched Ducktales recently...and I was surprised with just how disengaged I felt. I mean, the writing and animation is fine for its era...but it is a LONG way from anime's best. Don't even get me started on Spider-man, which I don't think was ever a particularly good series even in its day.

Obviously this is all a matter of taste in the end...but I watched and enjoyed most of those series, and as far as I'm concerned none of them hold up to anime's best. Stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the 3d, and One Piece. CB in particular is easily one of the most beautiful animated shows of the 90s.

I think only a handful of American shows really hold up to these kinds of anime. If we're talking 90s, I've really only got a handful: The Simpsons, Batman, Batman Beyond and Gargoyles. Though in my opinion, American animation didn't really hit its stride until the 2000s.



Does this even need a thread for ? Dragon Ball alone smash it all.



SnowPrince said:
Does this even need a thread for ? Dragon Ball alone smash it all.


Eh...I think Dragon Ball is a little too slow and simplistic to do that. Honestly, I can't stand watching the original DBZ series, though Kai is a lot better.



seiya19 said:
darkknightkryta said:
seiya19 said:
darkknightkryta said:
I'm not sure if I should crush Ryan's hopes, but all those cartoons are animated in Japan... or Korea.

You know, after becoming used to anime, I thought there was something reminiscent of it in the animation of ThunderCats and SilverHawks (specially the openings) as well as some parts of Batman: The Animated Series. It just looked particularly good to me...

Confirming said suspicion on Wikipedia many years later put a smile on my face. I knew it !

Sunrise actually did a few of those episodes.  I actually found those episodes to have been the best animation wise.

Huh, so it was Sunrise themselves... All I knew was that some Japanese animators were involved in it, and then went on to work on Cowboy Bebop.

I should rewatch the series sometime. I still consider it to be the best Batman adaptation I've seen.

There were lots of animation companies involved.  This is the list I'm shamelessly stealing from some forum that got it from another site of some kind:

Akom
Be a Clown; The Cat and the Claw (II); Cat Scratch Fever; Christmas with the Joker; Feat of Clay (I); Joker's Wild; The Last Laugh; Mad as a Hatter; The Mechanic; Moon of the Wolf; Prophecy of Doom; The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne; What Is Reality?.

Blue Pencil
Day of the Samurai; If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?.

Dong Yang
Almost Got 'Im; Appointment in Crime Alley; Bane; Batgirl Returns; Birds of a Feather; The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy; Catwalk; Deep Freeze; Fire from Olympus; The Forgotten; Harlequinade; Harley and Ivy; Harley's Holiday; House and Garden; I've Got Batman in My Basement; Joker's Favor; The Laughing Fish; The Lion and the Unicorn; Lock-Up; Make Em Laugh; Night of the Ninja; Nothing to Fear; Paging the Crime Doctor; Perchance to Dream; Riddler's Reform; Robin's Reckoning (II); Second Chance; See No Evil; Shadow of the Bat (I); Shadow of the Bat (II); Showdown; Sideshow; Terror in the Sky; Time Out of Joint; Trial; Two Face (II); Tyger Tyger; The Worry Men; Zatanna.

Jade
The Terrible Trio.

Spectrum
Beware the Gray Ghost; Heart of Ice; His Silicon Soul; It's Never Too Late; On Leather Wings; P.O.V.; Robin's Reckoning (I); Vendetta.

Studio Junio
Avatar; Baby Doll; Blind as a Bat; A Bullet for Bullock; Dreams in Darkness; Mudslide; The Underdwellers.

Sunrise
The Cat and the Claw (I); The Clock King; Eternal Youth; Heart of Steel (I); Heart of Steel (II); I Am the Night; The Man Who Killed Batman; Off Balance; Pretty Poison.

Tokyo Movie Shinsa
The Demon's Quest; Fear of Victory; Feat of Clay (II); Read My Lips; Two Face (I).

The New Batman Adventures

Koko/Dong Yang
Animal Act; Beware the Creeper; Chemistry; Cold Comfort; Critters; The Cult of the Cat; The Demon Reborn; Girl's Night Out; Holiday Knights; Judgment Day; Knight Time; Legends of the Dark Knight; Love is a Croc; Old Wounds; Sins of the Father; The Ultimate Thrill; You Scratch My Back.

TMS
Growing Pains; Mean Seasons; Never Fear; Over the Edge.

It's not 100% accurate though.  Sunrise did Feat of Clay episode 2 for instance.



@darkknightkryta

After reading your previous post mentioning Sunrise I looked around and I found this:

http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Animation_studios

There's a few differences with your list though, so I don't know how accurate it is... Where did you hear that "Feat of Clay" 2 was from Sunrise ?