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Forums - Nintendo - Iwata: Why Nintendo Games Aren't Works of Art

He's right. A game should be a game. Some games can, may and will be considered art at some point (including some Nintendo games), but that should never be the focus of a developer but more of a side effect imo.



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the_dengle said:
Mythmaker1 said:

I think that's kind of what made me lose interest in them the past few years. Nintendo makes very, very fun games, but rarely do they ever step beyond that. And when it comes down to it, I can have just as much fun, and appreciate the artistry to a much greater degree, when I dip into their older titles than their newer ones.

I can assure you that in spite of Iwata and Miyamoto's efforts, their newer games do offer more than just "fun." I can't speak for Mario because I don't really play NSMB. But going by the latest Zelda, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, and more, there is plenty of "artistry" to appreciate in Nintendo's offerings.

I'm not saying recent games aren't well-designed, necessarily. There is almost certainly much to appreciate there. In truth, Nintendo still has much to offer me...but what it comes down to is I can get that content much more easily, cheaper, and (possibly) better.

And the truth is, and this is something of a minority opinion, the quality of some of their games has taken a bit of a dip. Skyward Sword, for instance, was a game I didn't care for that much. I thought it was pretty mediocre, and it seemed like Nintendo was trying for exactly the sort of thing I wanted from them in that game. They simply did it in a way I thought didn't work.



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Kwaidd said:
Mythmaker1 said:

I'm saying if one is better-designed than the other, then that will show through while playing it. And that the artistry, therefore, is a factor in how much I appreciate and how well I regard a game. Not the only factor, but a factor.

And don't be too quick to equate "fun" and "enjoyment." You can enjoy something because it's fun, but it doesn't have to be fun for one to enjoy it. That's true for anything, and video games are no exception.


you are really grasping at straws here.  When was the last time anyone enjoyed playing a game that was not fun?  Because that is what we are talking about here...games, not a Rembrandt or a Chopin.   "I spent 60 dollars on a game and it wasn't even remotely fun, but I really enjoyed it."  C'mon.

Consider movies. Are there movies that people enjoy even though they aren't fun? Like, say...

Horror

Documentaries

Drama

"Art" films

to name a few.

The point is, fun isn't the only way to get your kicks out of a piece of entertainment. Most games have an element of fun, but the fun can be a secondary, even a tertiary appeal for the player.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

maybe when taken as a whole they are not "art" but the visuals on some of their games really are very creative and they have made some really interesting worlds with unique visual styles. I would consider them art from that aspect alone but they do fall a bit short on story.
The only way I can really put it and I am not trying to insult them but if they did paintings it would be "dogs playing poker" style stuff, not a serious museum piece but just something that brings a smile to your face.



I'd say it's up to Nintendo to create experiences that resonate with consumers, and it's up to consumers to decide whether or not a game has real artistic value. Any kind of role switch only complicates matters.



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What i think is you, just like countless other people in the internet rush head on into emotive drama.

You say Nintendo has moved on and other people online say they are still too old fashioned.

I say: Shut up and enjoy your games without constantly feeling the need to criticise the company that makes it. Play the games like you dont know who the developer is devoid of bias. After youre done then criticise.SM3DWorld isnt even out yet. It may very well be quite fun.



uh what is wrong with what he said?

Art is one element of a game. He basically said he isn't making art but a product people will connect with.

that does not mean there be no art direction in it.



 

 

The whole videogame industry -- especially its most avid consumers ("hardcore gamers", if you will) -- has a bit of a Napoleon complex when it comes to their medium. It's not entirely unwarrented, since it took so long for videogames to become accepted as art in the mainstream. But it causes some people to become really defensive on the matter.

What I mean is that I doubt that most filmmakers, musicians, or writers are really concerned with "making great art." You never hear Stephen Spielberg or Martin Scorsese saying that they try to make their movies really artistically great; rather, they set a goal they want to accomplish with their film, and then they try to make the best film possible that accomplishes that goal. How could the director of Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan make a movie like Jurassic Park or The Adventures of Tintin if he was always obsessed with making great art? Maybe Jurassic Park wound up being great art in the process, but do you think that was on his mind while he was making it?

If we could go back in time and ask a great classical composer what his main goal was in writing music, I doubt he would say that he wanted to "make great art." Hell, most Baroque composers would be practically required to answer that their main goal was to please their client... not so different from Iwata's comment. It's a pretty humble response, actually.

This interview aside, it's clear from everything else Iwata and Miyamoto have ever said that Nintendo's entire purpose is to make great games. Not great art... great games. Yes, games are (or at least can be) art. Therefore Nintendo is making great art. But that's not what the company is concerned with. Even on an individual level, the people drawing the concept art, making the character models, writing the music, aren't thinking about their work as art. They're thinking about it as a piece of the whole; they're designing characters that the player can relate to, that fit in the world they've created. Writing music that accentuates the mood of the situation, helps the player grow more comfortable with and immersed in the game. No one is in it specifically to make art.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Otakumegane said:

To a degree, I agree with him. As soons as games start becoming art people want to make em more like movies.

Heck Bioshock Infinite, critically acclaimed for it's gameplay was called "art". But the gameplay played like a generic shooter.

Now on the other hand, good gameplay doesn't mean a bad story, but good gameplay is easier to appreciate than good storytelling in a game as they age.

Of the greatest games of all time, not many as considered that because of their story.


Journey and Shadow of the Colossus are considered works of art. Shadow of the Colossus was in the smithsonian as a select work of modern art. Game had barely any story, but the gameplay told a story words cannot express.  Sony are both very artsy companies, but Sony focuses mostly on mature adult themed games which sometimes become niche if they lose their charm. Nintendo goes for the mass market kitsch approach which is built by virtue to sell more. Sony needs to learn from that.

Ehh.......

I think the words you're looking for is mechanics used as metaphor. But art isn't a great term to place to such things. More like good design.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

Nintendo may not design their games to be "artsy" (what an ugly word), but more than often they turn out that way anyways. This way they have a very good gameplay with awesome art design as an extra bonus. Just look at Skyward Sword (best effect on Dolphin T_T) and Pikmin3 for some recent examples. Especially Pikmin3.

Games being artsy just for the sake of being artsy may be conceived as being pretentious, by designing the games around the gameplay first Nintendo avoids that risk. (Not to sure how Kirby's Epic Yarn fits in my interpretation, though)