Basically what my second paragraph is saying is that if people choose trad controls, it's as valid as people sticking to retro graphics. It doesn't make them more valuable, it just means that people prefered to settle for what was comfortable, or are more traditional. That's the only proper conclusion we can gather.

@U. That's why I said hopefully.

Kind of like how it was with advanced graphics when the PS3 and 360 came out, yeah.

I do know something you don't, and it's this: Nintendo's consoles have a secret recipe. It is the mix of an affordable price, recognisable mascots, high-profile games, low-profile yet addictive games, non-traditional input devices and fun gameplay that makes their consoles sell, something that Sony and MS have never been able to emulate. They , instead, need cutting edge and 3rd parties to compete. Nintendo does it all alone with weaker graphics. They don't need Monolith, though it helps. They don't need Platinum Games. They just need all their fun and addictive games and the kids will come. It was the case for the DS, it is now the case for the 3DS, and hopefully they are migrating that strategy to the U better than they did for the Wii, and I very have high hopes if that is the case. Monolith and Platinum is expansion content, to expand Nintendo's current market. But it isn't fundamental to Nintendo's strategy.

It is a secret that escapes most non-Nintendo fans, because they just can't see it. I tried to explain it to Mazty, but it just seems like it's invisible to the non-Nintendo gamers out there.

If you have got the casuals what does  graphics  matter? Seldom do you ever find elaborate products selling with large crowds of people. As my commercial art teacher and all of my graphic design teachers always told me use the kiss rule if you want to make a product that sells to large groups of people. K.I.S.S. = Keep it simple stupid.

So we fall back to Oni's conundrum, that the U is not selling. or do you just want to accept my counter-post as is?

no its not valid in the least. elaborate on retro graphics, cause even then their are some genres you simply cant do with retro graphics. Open world, newer WRPGS, 3d fighters, newer FPSs, 3rd person shooters so it dont really add up. I cant play any of those with regular controls but there are some genres that simply wont work with motion controls. In the end people settle for what WORKS.

For your own sanity, i hope so too. Im a cynic and it aint looking great right now

The Wii U's problem outside of not being understood as a competent Wii successor is also that its more complex. Casuals dont like traditional controllers, unless they are simple like the NES to SNES, Sega era or PS era. 

Haha, it will be fine.

@retro. And similarly there are things that motion controls can do that trad controls can't. So if people stick to trad controls, it doesn't make them superior, it's a choice, just like sticking to retro graphics is. Oh, but wait, graphics are not like that, hey?

Did Brain Age require mastery of all of the DS' buttons? Did Nintendogs require spinning piledriver motions in order to play? The experience doesn't have to be more complex; the Gamepad funtions as a standard controller when needed but it can also function as intuitively as a tablet - and it was recently mentioned that 25% of toddlers here in the US know how to use a tablet. A healthy combination of the two dynamics would be easily accessible by most people. It's just up to Nintendo to provide the software that is as easy to pick up and play, and as fun, as games they've made in the past.

How does this have anything to do with Oni's reply to me?