Final-Fan said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: FunKrusher said: Auron said: Omac said: darthdevidem01 said: @Funkrusher HALO 3 appeals to a WIDER Demographic than GT5 & FFXIII WHAT BS! GT series has never sold below 9 million (peaking at 15 million) & FF never below 5 million (peaking at 10 million) It's quite obvious GT as a series is bigger than Halo...now You smoking crack? And you are too big of a Halo fanboy to realise that he is right. Numbers don't lie, back under your bridge troll. I love when you say something and someone calls you a fanboy not knowing anything about you or your background. Hey genuis' I don't even like HALO. I'm into COD4 though if you must know. So there's something you just learned about me. See the problem with the internet is you try and being insulting or funny. And sure it may come off as funny or insulting to you or your e-flunky followers. But an insult without claim or merit to back it isn't at insult it's just ignorance. There you go you just learned something else. I'm giving out gold stars if you can apply and use this knowledge correctly next time. But back to the matter on hand it was ignorant on my part to put that up there with out checking actual numbers and sales data, and doing all that cool internet tech savy you guys do. My bad. I will infact retract that statement. But assuming you read (because it's apparent you didn't comprehend what was written). I was saying that these franchise WILL NOT CAUSE A HUGE SPIKE IN SALES FOR THE PS3 TO MAKE IT CATIPULT FROM 7million to 17MILLION SYSTEMS SOLD UPON THEIR RELEASE. I put it in bold for you. Take some time read it and digest it. And I stand buy that. The numbers you guys listed were on a system that had what? Over 100million users as a fanbase? Okay maybe not that much over their first releases but the Ps2 at the time of FFX-XII and MGS3 and GTA3-4 clearly had more than 20 million users.So let's apply those numbers here? Are those the current Sales-TO-Life date? Cool let's use them to help me make my point. if I'm looking at the numbers for those past games. And looking at the install numbers for the Ps3 NOW (in bold again for the comprehensively challenged). That means in order for any of those games on their release to sell those numbers EVERYONE (in bold again) who owns a Ps3 will be buying those games.Now sure that can happen? But the probability of it happening? You do the math.So I've spelled it out for you. I could make a witty comment about you guys being too much of Ps3 fanboys to have read and comprehended this or my previous post. But I'll let what I just posted speak for itself.Go ahead refute that. And please feel free to ad more nonsensical witty, attempt at hurting e-feelings comments. I need a few more laughs. Time is yours. What is this your alt account or did you think i was talking to you when my comments are towards Omac and not you. If this is your alt nice to know that you troll on at least two accounts. How about you find something better to do with your time? Now you talk about the PS3 numbers now well GT is not coming out NOW is it? Next GT didn't sell that amount in one day but over the generation. Now if you are Omac then my comments stand. If you are not well then i guess you can join him under the bridge. Hey genius! Yeah I thought those comments were directed towards me. Being I was the one that initially said that HALO 3 has a higher casual install base than those franchises. And read your comments and others comments labelling me a Halo3 fanboy. Wow you're telling me that I can go hide under a bridge implying I'm a troll? Wait so backing up your arguement or any arguement in a detailed thought out manner explaining your views with no hints of fanboyism at all makes you a troll!?!?!?! Actually I will personally fly to where ever you are and hand you 10k in USD cash if you can find ANY fanboyism in the previous post that I have written (examples: saying another system sucks or is clearly showing an irrational bias towards one system or not). Okay, I think we need to make a petition for people who have reading and comprehension problems. We need to get the kids the help they need. It'll help them out in the grand scheme of things. You're so quick to come off on here and make yourself pretty much look like a donkey's arse with no claim what-so-ever or foundation to stand on. Dude if you actually read and COMPREHENDED what I said, I already made your point that THOSE WERE LIFETIME SALES TO THOSE GAMES. I already talked about how THERE'S NO WAY TO TELL WHAT THE INSTALL BASE WILL BE WHEN THEY COME OUT. And in trying to be comedian you just made my point so if those are lifetime sales on a system that has 100million+ User base. And most of those games Have 6million LIFETIME SALES. That means 6% OF THE INSTALL BASE OF THE SYSTEM HAS BOUGHT THOSE GAMES. But that wasn't my point. We'll get back to this let's just call it POINT A. The main point being which was I (as in me not your e-nemesis or whoever else you were talking to). Was *drum roll* THOSE GAMES WILL NOT CAUSE THE PS3 TO GAIN A CRAZY SALES SPIKE AND JUMP FROM 7MILLION to 17 MILLION. So let's break this down before you once again fail to read and PROCESS (ie: COMPREHEND) actually what's being said here.Space provided to help you maybe understand better. 1. None of those games on the list THE ONE YOU PROVIDED have sold 10million + in their lifetime2. To date there are roughly 7 million Ps3s that are out in the world with that number increasing even as we speak3. If any of those titles are made available within the next 1-2 years (which we ASSUME they will be). and we Project that the Ps3 sells another 3million hell let's say 4 million systems in that time frame. That would put it's install base at 11million total. 4. That means in order for the Ps3 to at least sell on the level at the 360 (and we're assuming that that stops selling largely as well. Let's give the 360 a install base of 19 million. Leaving an 8 million gap)5. Refering to POINT A (if only 6% of 11million user base games buy those games. all based on the performance that they have shown in the past) that means they will sell 660,000k I REPEAT FOR THE COMPRHENSIVELY CHALLENGED 660,000k.All this information is taken directly from things you've posted and implied. Now I've laid it all out for you. Very simple to follow. It's up to you to do the rest. Now of course this all just speculation and who's to say what could happen. But like I said originallyTHOSE GAMES WILL NOT CAUSE THE PS3 SALES TO SPIKE FROM 9 MILLION TO 17-18 MILLION IN A YEAR, OR EVEN 2-3 YEARS. Well probably in 2 years it could actually.Even if it did 6% of let's say 18 MILLION is ONLY 1.08 MILLION.Now just for farts and laughs we could make the arguement that HALO3 with 5million sold on a system with 16 million install base has sold to 30% of the EXISTING USER BASE. I'm no mathematician but 30% is a lot higher than 6%. These are actual RIGHT NOW NUMBERS. But you probably already knew that, being that you're a genius and all. And according to your "non-fanboy" inspired post you said that those franchises selling 6million lifetime totals on a system that has 100million+ users, have a bigger user bases than Halo3 RIGHT NOW (YOUR EXACT WORDS) selling 5million total to date sales on a system with 16 million users. I'd say we need to get you some math lessons too.Hey genius maybe instead of spending so much time on here you need to get yourself over to www.hookedonphonics.com and try some READING & COMPREHENSION exercises.It'll save you the embarassment of not knowing what it is your talking about when you're trying to throw insults around.I'm backing up my arguements with math, logic, data (some which you yourself provided) and presenting.How about you?So who's the fanboy again? And for the record I don't like Halo, I prefer COD4 Do we still get the $10,000 if we find fanboyism in THIS post? (Irrational bias against a system) 1. None of those games on the list THE ONE YOU PROVIDED have sold 10million + in their lifetime Games listed: GT series, FF series Gran Turismo: 10.85m Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec: 14.87m Gran Turismo 4 (Including GT4 Prologue): 10.23m Final Fantasy VII (Including FFVII International): 10.31m So, lies or ignorance. Since you later use another user's 10m+ numbers without complaint, I'll let you claim ignorance. 2. To date there are roughly 7 million Ps3s that are out in the world with that number increasing even as we speak VGChartz front page: 9.76m Since you later claim ignorance as to this fact, I'm going to be charitable and call you an idiot. 3. If any of those titles are made available within the next 1-2 years (which we ASSUME they will be). and we Project that the Ps3 sells another 3million hell let's say 4 million systems in that time frame. That would put it's install base at 11million total. Let's be charitable and change this prediction to "4m in one year". You are predicting something like a 50% drop in sales from 2007. That is unrealistically bad. To the point of lies or ignorance. 4. That means in order for the Ps3 to at least sell on the level at the 360 (and we're assuming that that stops selling largely as well. Let's give the 360 a install base of 19 million. Leaving an 8 million gap) To be fair, you also say that 360 sales will die as well, which is also stupid. 5. Referring to POINT A (if only 6% of 11million user base games guy those games. all based on the performance that they have shown in the past) that means they will sell 660,000k I REPEAT FOR THE COMPREHENSIVELY CHALLENGED 660,000k. From "POINT A": And most of those games Have 6million LIFETIME SALES. Sales of the named series on 100m+ selling systems: Gran Turismo: GT-10.85, GT2-9.37, GT3AS-14.87, GT4-8.87 or 10.23 including Prologue Hmm, I see a pattern here. That pattern is ABOVE 9 MILLION IN SALES. Final Fantasy: VII-10.31, VIII-7.86, IX-7.91, X-7.91 or 8.22 including International, X-2-5.21, XI doesn't count, XII-7.93 The pattern here is ALMOST 8 MILLION IN SALES. So, lies or ignorance. : : Your point about the smaller user base is at least BASED on reality, but you ignore two things, the first one being that the userbase will also increase over time, making your "6% of 11m at launch" invalid not only in the 6% and the 11m but also in the "at launch" UNLESS you compare it to the previous games versus userbase at game launch. For instance, FFX's would be 11-27m PS2s at launch due to staggered game launch. I would not say this kind of comparison is very useful (FF lifetime sales seem to ignore at-game-launch userbase quite nicely) but it's better than just IGNORING it. Or are you only interested in what the games will sell in their first year, in which case: Why the hell are you discussing lifetime sales at all; and Of course Halo wins but that's 'cause it's so frontloaded. : : The second thing your point ignores is that it is a well-known fact that games on less-successful systems have sales that are higher in proportion to userbase. This is because the more-successful systems (PS1, PS2, Wii) are the "big tent" system that draws in all (or most) kinds of gamers while the less-successful systems have to fall back on their core constituencies. If there are 5 types of games being made for 5 types of gamers on 5 million systems, they are going to have lower attach rates (say 20%) than 2 types of games made for 2 types or gamers on 2 million systems (say 50%). This is why few are predicting (5.91/21.51=27.5) 41 million Galaxy sales even if the Wii reaches 150 million. In short: You either don't have a good grasp at all on the subject you are lecturing others on [edit: among other things, you were wrong on almost every sales figure you mentioned] and insulting them for not understanding, or are consciously or subconsciously biasing your analysis to make the PS3 look bad. Do I win the prize? P.S. On the other hand, "660,000k" -- or 6.6 million -- isn't a bad prediction for lifetime GT5 sales considering the lower PS3 user base.

I'll answer you as well because you seem to have trouble reading and comprehending as well.  

For one I love how you go five posts back and pull up things that I myself admit to not having concrete actuals on.  But we'll deal directly with that.

To answer your first question. No you don't get the 10k because there was no irrational fanboyism in any of those post.  Again I'll challenge you to find in any of those post where I said that any of those games sucked, or where better than the others based purely on bias or the system they were on? Or take it one further and find where the gist of what I was saying is clearly way off the mark because of an obvious vendetta or personal dislike for ANY of those games?

I'll save you some time because I didn't. Dealing with what I did do in my post after admitting my mistakes was, I took the numbers that were provided to me on a point that I wasn't even trying to argue (which I clearly said numerous times) and basically came up with cold hard numbers as to which Franchise was selling better to it's user base.  I'm not trying to school anyone, but I do wish the reading and comprehensive levels matched the self assuredness of you people coming out of the woodwork to shoot down baseless assumptions.

So no there was no irrational fanboyism. Was there ignorance in terms of the actual numbers? Sure I'll give you that. But you'll have to excuse me if for the sake of arguing on a message board, in some what of a light discusion topic, if searching for actual numbers, compiling and crunching them escape me.  I graduated college years ago. I'm not into homework anymore.  My bad, I have numerous hobbies and doing homework for the sake of arguing isn't one of them.

But I'll admit when I first started listing numbers they weren't based on actuals.  That is why I used words like roughly and phrases like: I'm not exactly sure.  My guess is you were so primed to call me an idiot that you might have missed those? 

 

Let's just jump to point #3 since I've pretty much addressed 1 and 2.  So you alone can determine that a prediction is good or bad?  Wow I didn't know that your personal opinion and prefrential judgement carried that much wait over what you yourself admitted was MY PREDICTION.  That's like me telling you you're stupid and wrong for thinking the sky is light blue, instead of regular blue. Would I be right or wrong to tell you what you think about what you see or think?  Come on unless you're in primary school, you should be able to see where I'm going with that.  But on second thought since I seem to need to spell out things for you comprehensively challenged people I will. Different strokes for different folks, meaning we all think and have our own opinions on different things based on our personal experiences

But I'll apologize again for not living in your version of reality, where my personal thoughts are parallel to your presonal thoughts and predictions, deeming them lies, stupid, and ignorant. My bad, again.

 

For point #4 see the above paragraph.  

For your final point you touch up on the install base for a game earlier in a systems life cycle vs. install base at the end of the systems life cycle and it's relations for initial games sold and finite total games sold.  You also ask me why I'm arguing this point? Once again I guess in your quest to go back a couple pages to one of my initial post. You missed the part where hello217 responded to my claim of thinking that Halo has a more casual user base than GT.  

Now if you had read any of the post after the one you so strategically tried to rip apart, all which are on this ver page.   You'll see that I covered many of those things you're talking about before you typed them.

 

But I'll give you a brief synopsis since you obviously missed it.  I took the numbers that were given to me (which I presume to be correct as they were provided by the person who was telling me I was wrong) and did the precentage of what GT had sold on Ps2 on avg. to date and also the total franchise. In relaltion to what Halo had sold on avg. to date on the xbox and also the franchise avg. for Halo 1&2 also on xbox (since we can't compare GT5 to Halo3 yet to be fair)

I came up with a the percentage of how many people on the respective systems purchased the game and used that number to illuminate the fact that Halo has a higher rate of ownership than GT.  To which led to the conclusion that if we're going to say a franchise based purely on numbers (which once again were provided for me by the person starting the arguement with me) that Halos % numbers are higher than GT and that's being on a system with far less of an install base.  

Now you tried to slightly snake this in reference to my older post which you responded to by saying Halo is front loaded and blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada.  A sale, is a sale, is a sale, is a sale.  I'm not going to say or argue anything more than that.

 

So in closing you don't seem to have a grasp on reading and comprehending either.  Instead of being quick to throw around secondary lunchroom buzzwords like, ignorance lies, stupid, or try and label someone a fanboy.  Maybe you should've scrolled down and read more?

And in the end I find it comical how you go back 5 post and try to make a point that was 

1. rendered totally irrelevant because I myself admit my numbers were based purely on blind speculation.

2. even if they were wrong were based on speculation as in not actuals or a bid saying THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. or THIS IS A FACT (I felt the need to re-enforce the speculation bit because you seem to need it spelled out for you).

3. Use that over sight on my part as way to try and label me a fanboy

4. Totally discount my speculation (as in not an actuality or fact just an uneducated gues) based on your obvious superior knowledge of analyzation and predictions.  Which hold far more weight than mine, which is why your trying to school me on the internet in a forum, when I had not one thing to say or gripe to pick with you.

 

In short I do have a good grasp of what I was doing which was (once again I'll space it out for you):

 

TAKING THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO ME. BY THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE ARGUEMENT WITH ME. AND SHOWING SAID PERSON THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THE CLAIM MADE.

 

So no you sir or ma'am do not get the 10k. And I hope I've answered all your questions to the best possible way that you wanted to see them answered. I'll apologize if I didn't being that I don't live in that world where my thoughts speculations run parallel with yours and all.  But again, I hope this gives you some clarification.

 

FunKrusher said: I'll answer you as well because you seem to have trouble reading and comprehending as well. For one I love how you go five posts back and pull up things that I myself admit to not having concrete actuals on. But we'll deal directly with that. To answer your first question. No you don't get the 10k because there was no irrational fanboyism in any of those post. Again I'll challenge you to find in any of those post where I said that any of those games sucked, or where better than the others based purely on bias or the system they were on? Or take it one further and find where the gist of what I was saying is clearly way off the mark because of an obvious vendetta or personal dislike for ANY of those games? I'll save you some time because I didn't. Dealing with what I did do in my post after admitting my mistakes was, I took the numbers that were provided to me on a point that I wasn't even trying to argue (which I clearly said numerous times) and basically came up with cold hard numbers as to which Franchise was selling better to it's user base. I'm not trying to school anyone, but I do wish the reading and comprehensive levels matched the self assuredness of you people coming out of the woodwork to shoot down baseless assumptions. So no there was no irrational fanboyism. Was there ignorance in terms of the actual numbers? Sure I'll give you that. But you'll have to excuse me if for the sake of arguing on a message board, in some what of a light discusion topic, if searching for actual numbers, compiling and crunching them escape me. I graduated college years ago. I'm not into homework anymore. My bad, I have numerous hobbies and doing homework for the sake of arguing isn't one of them. But I'll admit when I first started listing numbers they weren't based on actuals. That is why I used words like roughly and phrases like: I'm not exactly sure. My guess is you were so primed to call me an idiot that you might have missed those? Let's just jump to point #3 since I've pretty much addressed 1 and 2. So you alone can determine that a prediction is good or bad? Wow I didn't know that your personal opinion and prefrential judgement carried that much wait over what you yourself admitted was MY PREDICTION. That's like me telling you you're stupid and wrong for thinking the sky is light blue, instead of regular blue. Would I be right or wrong to tell you what you think about what you see or think? Come on unless you're in primary school, you should be able to see where I'm going with that. But on second thought since I seem to need to spell out things for you comprehensively challenged people I will. Different strokes for different folks, meaning we all think and have our own opinions on different things based on our personal experience. But I'll apologize again for not living in your version of reality, where my personal thoughts are parallel to your presonal thoughts and predictions, deeming them lies, stupid, and ignorant. My bad, again. For point #4 see the above paragraph. For your final point you touch up on the install base for a game earlier in a systems life cycle vs. install base at the end of the systems life cycle and it's relations for initial games sold and finite total games sold. You also ask me why I'm arguing this point? Once again I guess in your quest to go back a couple pages to one of my initial post. You missed the part where hello217 responded to my claim of thinking that Halo has a more casual user base than GT. Now if you had read any of the post after the one you so strategically tried to rip apart, all which are on this ver page. You'll see that I covered many of those things you're talking about before you typed them. But I'll give you a brief synopsis since you obviously missed it. I took the numbers that were given to me (which I presume to be correct as they were provided by the person who was telling me I was wrong) and did the precentage of what GT had sold on Ps2 on avg. to date and also the total franchise. In relaltion to what Halo had sold on avg. to date on the xbox and also the franchise avg. for Halo 1&2 also on xbox (since we can't compare GT5 to Halo3 yet to be fair) I came up with a the percentage of how many people on the respective systems purchased the game and used that number to illuminate the fact that Halo has a higher rate of ownership than GT. To which led to the conclusion that if we're going to say a franchise based purely on numbers (which once again were provided for me by the person starting the arguement with me) that Halos % numbers are higher than GT and that's being on a system with far less of an install base. Now you tried to slightly snake this in reference to my older post which you responded to by saying Halo is front loaded and blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. A sale, is a sale, is a sale, is a sale. I'm not going to say or argue anything more than that. So in closing you don't seem to have a grasp on reading and comprehending either. Instead of being quick to throw around secondary lunchroom buzzwords like, ignorance lies, stupid, or try and label someone a fanboy. Maybe you should've scrolled down and read more? And in the end I find it comical how you go back 5 post and try to make a point that was 1. rendered totally irrelevant because I myself admit my numbers were based purely on blind speculation. 2. even if they were wrong were based on speculation as in not actuals or a bid saying THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. or THIS IS A FACT (I felt the need to re-enforce the speculation bit because you seem to need it spelled out for you). 3. Use that over sight on my part as way to try and label me a fanboy 4. Totally discount my speculation (as in not an actuality or fact just an uneducated gues) based on your obvious superior knowledge of analyzation and predictions. Which hold far more weight than mine, which is why your trying to school me on the internet in a forum, when I had not one thing to say or gripe to pick with you. In short I do have a good grasp of what I was doing which was (once again I'll space it out for you): TAKING THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO ME. BY THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE ARGUEMENT WITH ME. AND SHOWING SAID PERSON THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THE CLAIM MADE. So no you sir or ma'am do not get the 10k. And I hope I've answered all your questions to the best possible way that you wanted to see them answered. I'll apologize if I didn't being that I don't live in that world where my thoughts speculations run parallel with yours and all. But again, I hope this gives you some clarification.

First, I'd like to note that I wouldn't even be riding you so hard if you didn't combine your ignorant speculation with heaping amounts of condescension and spend half your posts talking about what an idiot the other guy is.

I never said that you outright said one system was inherently better, but in these parts of the intarweb when people use junk math to project 140 million PS3s lifetime sales they're fanboys. Or 14 million.

You aren't "safe" from people calling your bullshit if you last ten hours before someone finds it. I gave you what credit you deserve for accepting the correct numbers when people pointed out that they were wrong. But "if searching for actual numbers, compiling and crunching them escape me" then you must be A COMPLETE FUCKING MORON because the "searching" can be done on the front page of this very site in two seconds. Five if your connection is slow.

"But I'll admit when I first started listing numbers they weren't based on actuals. That is why I used words like roughly and phrases like: I'm not exactly sure." Well, if you can't be bothered to spend two seconds on actual numbers on A FORUM FOR SALES DISCUSSIONS, why even bother? It's as if I were to go on a forum about cars and -- knowing barely enough to change the oil -- start calling everyone a moron because MY ignorant opinions based on outdated or just wrong facts are obviously correct because I went to COLLEGE. You didn't seem too 'unsure' when berating others. Quite the opposite in fact.

When you make a prediction that console sales will drop by half, and past examples say that it should rise or stay steady, and all the predictions of KNOWLEDGEABLE people are that it will rise, and you give NO NUMBERS (and clearly have no numbers) to support your prediction, then I think it's fair to say that your prediction is indeed stupid. If you'd bothered to give some evidence (wrong, no doubt) in support, I'd at least give you a tiny amount of respect for not completely pulling numbers out of your ass. But you didn't. So I didn't.

I like how you completely dodge all aspects of my argument here, either with "long time ago so I can ignore being wrong" or "I'll just totally ignore the second half of your point" or "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

Paraphrased: I WENT TO COLLEGE AND YOU'RE PROBLY STILL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL YOU CHILDISH FANBOY, SHUT UP KIDDIE CUZ I'M SMARTER THAN YOU ARE. (Ironically, I was rated as having college-level reading comprehension by the time I DID get into middle school.)

Quoted: "TAKING THE NUMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO ME. BY THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE ARGUEMENT WITH ME." Only you didn't, or you never would have made the ridiculous "6 million" claim. Oh wait, you can't be bothered to spend any time looking up any actual facts when you can just SPECULATE and magically your speculations are sound basis for an argument to blow him away.

"AND SHOWING SAID PERSON THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THE CLAIM MADE." After you'd doctored them up with your ridiculous predictions, which you now claim/admit were made from a standpoint of near-total ignorance.

If you are completely ignorant on a subject, why are you making predictions about that subject, especially when they are wildly in contrast with the predictions of those who are NOT ignorant? and why the HELL do you then consider yourself qualified to tear apart the arguments and predictions of others who cannot possibly be any MORE ignorant than you?

By this point it seems that you're actually mocking me for having superior knowledge of the subject, which I don't understand at all.


As for the "not a fanboy, just ignorant" defense: see second paragraph.

As for why I jumped into this: I don't like it when people make mistakes like you did. It's in my nature to correct them. I guess it annoys you to be corrected, but I try to think of the people who are grateful that they can move forward and be correct -- and less ignorant -- in the future. I am usually more polite, but you don't really deserve the circumspection.

Look, I think I understand your situation: You're coming here from a place without the easy access to accurate, up-to-date sales data such as what VGChartz offers. Without reasonably accurate and fresh numbers, speculation is indeed all you can really do, and it's not reasonable to expect someone to independently research every single number when they state their opinions.

Ordinarily, we give some time for such newcomers to acclimate to the bright lights, and indulge their hilariously wrong numbers while gently steering them towards the relevant data here. However, you have chosen to ignore even the most basic of data available on the front page and done nothing (in this thread) but condescendingly and arrogantly belittle everyone who disagrees with the opinions you proudly back up with nothing but pure opinion-based speculation.

I am disinclined to cut you any slack.

good god the walls of quotes!

^^^I was just going to say the same thing. FOR THE LOVE OF SANITY, JUST QUOTE THE LAST COMMENT, NOT ALL THE PREVIOUS ONES!!!!

Final-Fan said: Look, I think I understand your situation: You're coming here from a place without the easy access to accurate, up-to-date sales data such as what VGChartz offers. Without reasonably accurate and fresh numbers, speculation is indeed all you can really do, and it's not reasonable to expect someone to independently research every single number when they state their opinions. Ordinarily, we give some time for such newcomers to acclimate to the bright lights, and indulge their hilariously wrong numbers while gently steering them towards the relevant data here. However, you have chosen to ignore even the most basic of data available on the front page and done nothing (in this thread) but condescendingly and arrogantly belittle everyone who disagrees with the opinions you proudly back up with nothing but pure opinion-based speculation. I am disinclined to cut you any slack.

First of all let me start this off by saying this is ridiculous.  I skimmed through your long post which seemed like it was written with definite intense and malice. I felt the need to ask? Why so serious?  Is it really that big of a deal to you?

Now I'm not going to go over every single point in your post because I'm tired of talking in cirlces.  But for starters I never said anything about you being in middle school or me being more mature than you.  I don't know anything about you, and I don't care. What I said was that searching for numbers for games (such as last gen GT and HALO) seems like homework to me If you think it was an insult on you well that's your hang up.  What I did say is that you HAVE TROUBLE READING AND COMPREHENDING which you keep making me painfully aware of.

I find it amazing how you keep combining points with my current post (with the recent numbers and simple steps outlining what exactly it is that I was talking about).  With a previous earlier ALREADY SELF ADMITTED MISTAKE RIDDLED POST and trying to make your point? Hmmm... agenda much?

Next you are continuing to discount any of my recent post in which I took THE NUMBERS PROVIDED TO ME BY PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE KNOWLEDGIBLE ON THE SUBJECT and used them to back my point.  For some reason you seem to keep going back my 3rd or 4th post, out of 5 or 6 and using that to fuel whatever hard on you have for the asinine point you're trying to make.

I admitted I was wrong NUMEROUS times and never once passed of my blind speculation as fact.  I don't know how to actually make you understand that this being one of your main points is totally rendered irrelevant but where I'm from people don't argue with people about their own admission of faults and try to come of "holier than thou". Especially when that was a point made initially.  You either have nothing better to do with your time, have a vendetta of some sort to fulfill or are an asshole. Or all of the above.  I don't know you tell me?

Let's put it in simple terms you may understand:  If we begin a conversation and you initially say something that's off base and completely wrong.  But immediatly based on the correction of me or others retract that statement and admit your mistake/failure/whatever and move on to the next point.  But I continue to stay on the point of your mistake.  That makes me ignorant and completely off base and missing the point.  Which is exactly what you're doing here.  You have completely disregarded my post using numbers provided, showing my thought process to the point that I was making.

So you'll have to excuse me if I'm being condescending to someone who want's to point out various things, all completely irrelevant to the subject.

Moving on I've explained tirelessly and time again. That it is my perogative to come on here and say whatever it is that I want.  Now if I come on here and spout nonsense and try to pass it off as truth?  Then yes that makes me an idiot. But all I've done was try to be stand up about it, and continuously point out/out line what I was trying to do.  Yes I was wrong with my initial post (I'm telling you again), and there is no excuse, which is why I myself said that it was IGNORANCE on my part.  The very definition of it I'm using on myself (not knowing). You're trying to use it as an insult.  Your perogative. But I'm admitting that I had baseless knowledge on the subject which is ignorant.  See what you're trying to do is take a self admitted mistake of mine and pass it off as an excuse to throw around stupid, moron, ignorant.  That's where the "hollier than thou" comment comes from.  Again an example:  If you are already aware of a mistake, meaning that you do have the educated capcity to realize that you're wrong. And then I see you do this and say "Damn dude you're a moron" with every intent of calling you a moron. Exactly what purpose does that serve?

And lastly I could give a fuck-less if you feel the need to correct people or are usually patient with them. My advice is get a job as a teacher, gift  take a hike fly a kite and leave me the fuck alone.  I'm done explaining it to you.  You're nothing to me but a screen name and a few paragraphs of text. If you don't like me or the way I do something. Don't pay me any attention.  I'm done with you.

My point is that you have a HABIT of making proclamations and predictions WITHOUT doing the most basic fact-checking. (While attacking others for supposedly questionable statements and predictions.  Glass houses, you know?)

Here are some MORE examples of your inexcusably sloppy research, taken from your most recent argument on the subject so you can't complain.

Example 1:
If another franchise (we can only take the first 2 that came out on the same system) sells 14.88 to a user base of 15 million
: : You say Xbox has sold 15 million to date. US sales are at 16m and WW sales are at 24m so I assume you mean US only even though normally if people don't mention anything specifically it would be WW.
: : You say Halo series on Xbox (not 360) totals 14.88m. But wait! That's (6.43+8.45=14.88) WORLDWIDE TOTALS! You can't have accidentally added all three games up for US because that's (4.91+6.67+5.23) 16.81m. No, you applied WW game sales to US console sales.
: : Again, either you're deliberately misrepresenting the numbers to skew things the way you want, or you're completely incompetent.

Example 2:
But the main point of my post was that those games would not cause a major spike increase to the Ps3's sales to all of sudden make it leap and nearly triple it's sales output in the manner of their respective leads.
: : I don't know what exactly you mean by "manner of respective leads", but the PS3 is selling in the neighborhood of around 150k per week WW. In 1 year of 150k/wk we would have 7.8 million in sales, not your 3-4 million projection, and that's not even counting the holiday spike which every console gets. Triple that would put the PS3 somewhere near 30m by 2009 and I don't think anyone here was predicting that.

Let's put it in simple terms you may understand: If we begin a conversation and you initially say something that's off base and completely wrong. But immediatly based on the correction of me or others retract that statement and admit your mistake/failure/whatever and move on to the next point. But you continue to make the same damn mistakes on other numbers. That makes you ignorant and completely off base and missing the point. Which is exactly what you're doing here. You have disregarded many points of my post as well, such as the fact that comparing attach rates for a 24-million-selling console to a 100-to-120-million-selling console is treacherous ground and allowances have to be made for the different circumstances.

There is nothing wrong with the state of not knowing something, but you are PRETENDING to know things when you quite clearly do not. I don't know if nobody ever told you this, but throwing out bullshit numbers and correcting them only when you get caught is not a valid technique for building a solid argument. I know it's easier to make the other guy do all the footwork, but damn, back up your arrogance with SOME facts that can't be shown to be wrong in 30 seconds.

But I guess you'll just ignore all this, because you're "done" with me.

P.S. I had thought you implied that I was in middle school or had equivalent maturity/intelligence because: Instead of being quick to throw around secondary lunchroom buzzwords like, ignorance lies, stupid, or try and label someone a fanboy. Maybe you should've scrolled down and read more? If you meant "secondary" to mean "second-rate" or some other thing, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your statement. In my defense, it's easy to get a false positive on condescension in a post dripping with the real thing. Out of curiosity, what DID you mean by "secondary" here?

Jesus you again? I'm getting the feeling this is turning into a who can get the last word in.

 i'm going to go over each of the points of your last post and hope you really can keep up with what I'm saying. Because I'm really tired of arguing with you.  This isn't a case of who's right or wrong. It seems to be turning into a "who's got the bigger brain or balls" or pissing match. That's the vibe I'm getting off of you and as I've stated before. I don't care.  But here we go:

 

1. My point is that you have a HABIT of making proclamations and predictions WITHOUT doing the most basic fact-checking. (While attacking others for supposedly questionable statements and predictions.  Glass houses, you know?)

-Here you go with those assumptions. As I explained before in previous post. It was blind speculation based on an assumption. Since you seem to be so good at going back and copying and pasting my post. Start with my very first one and work your way forward, and tell me exactly who did I in fact attack unprovked.  For the sake of ending this arguement I'll help you out. All my venom came from  a quote that I thought was directed at me calling me a fanboy.  Not once in any of those early initial post DID I COME AT ANYONE UNTIL hello217 told me to go back under my bridge implying I was a fanboy.

2. Here are some MORE examples of your inexcusably sloppy research, taken from your most recent argument on the subject so you can't complain.

Example 1:
If another franchise (we can only take the first 2 that came out on the same system) sells 14.88 to a user base of 15 million
: : You say Xbox has sold 15 million to date. US sales are at 16m and WW sales are at 24m so I assume you mean US only even though normally if people don't mention anything specifically it would be WW.
: : You say Halo series on Xbox (not 360) totals 14.88m. But wait! That's (6.43+8.45=14.88) WORLDWIDE TOTALS! You can't have accidentally added all three games up for US because that's (4.91+6.67+5.23) 16.81m. No, you applied WW game sales to US console sales.

*sigh* Hey genius I go those numbers from HELLO217. THE INITIAL PERSON I WAS ARGUING WITH. I was using his numbers HE PROVIDED (it's all right there in this post). Against the poin the was making.  Not too mention what did I say about homework?  You should be able to answer this question since you're reading, studying, an copying and pasting my post like you're getting a letter grade at the end of this discussion.  Again READING AND COMPREHENSION.

3. But the main point of my post was that those games would not cause a major spike increase to the Ps3's sales to all of sudden make it leap and nearly triple it's sales output in the manner of their respective leads.
: : I don't know what exactly you mean by "manner of respective leads", but the PS3 is selling in the neighborhood of around 150k per week WW. In 1 year of 150k/wk we would have 7.8 million in sales, not your 3-4 million projection, and that's not even counting the holiday spike which every console gets. Triple that would put the PS3 somewhere near 30m by 2009 and I don't think anyone here was predicting that.

Let's put it in simple terms you may understand: If we begin a conversation and you initially say something that's off base and completely wrong. But immediatly based on the correction of me or others retract that statement and admit your mistake/failure/whatever and move on to the next point. But you continue to make the same damn mistakes on other numbers. That makes you ignorant and completely off base and missing the point. Which is exactly what you're doing here. You have disregarded many points of my post as well, such as the fact that comparing attach rates for a 24-million-selling console to a 100-to-120-million-selling console is treacherous ground and allowances have to be made for the different circumstances.

  Okay using the exact numbers lests deal with math and actualities.  Not allowances.  If I have a console  that has 120 million people that bought the system. Out of those 120 million a gaming franchise sells 44 million total as a franchise. That means that about 37% of said systems install base has purchased the game or into the series.  If the competing system has 24 million systems sold and out of those 24 million systems sold, a franchise sells roughly 14 million games to the install base on the competing system. That means the franchise on the competing system has sold to around 62% of the franchise base.  Now we can argue peoples purchasing habits (which would be purely on speculation because there's no true way for either of us to guage that, or allowances or what have you)   But if you're telling me that those numbers don't give a hint to which franchise sells better on their respective systems to their systems fanbase. Then there' no helping you. Please stop the maddness. Now I've used your numbers to prove the point. And we're arguing in terms of game sold.  I can't help what the numbers say. They are there.  I'm dealing with the actuals of what's in front of me. So now you're bringing things like allowances into the equation to try and prove your point. Where I'm just using the numbers. When to me it doesn't matter, not to mention I've backed up what I was saying and trying to get across with support for my arguement.  And through it all my point was THESE GAMES COMING OUT IN THESE RESPECTIVE FRANCHISES WON'T CAUSE A MAJOR SALES INCREASE IN SYSTEMS SOLD. Yes I threw out a number to say triple increase in sales.  That was as response to people saying SONY WILL DOMINATE!!! Which to the best of my guestimations as in my opinionit would have to do dominate the the 360 and the Wii.  Key phrase in that previous sentence MY GUESTIMATIONS AS IN MY OPINION.

 4. There is nothing wrong with the state of not knowing something, but you are PRETENDING to know things when you quite clearly do not. I don't know if nobody ever told you this, but throwing out bullshit numbers and correcting them only when you get caught is not a valid technique for building a solid argument. I know it's easier to make the other guy do all the footwork, but damn, back up your arrogance with SOME facts that can't be shown to be wrong in 30 seconds.

I'm sorry I missed the part where I came on this site and threw out a bunch of nonsense and told everyone that they should believe me just because I said so?  I didn't bring numbers into the arguement or even start the arguement (intentionally anyway). The people who originally were attacking me did (hello217 in case you missed it).  The numbers I used that were wrong (and not out of this world wrong) were numbers TO THE BEST OF MY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ON THE FLY.(of 100 million systems to 15 million systems sold which to the best of my knowledge is in the same ballpark of 120million and 24 million if we're making blind guesses). I also seem to miss the part where I said those were irrefutibly concrete?

Next, so admitting that you're wrong is pretending to know things?  Wait and when someone pointing out that you're obviously wrong. Manning up and saying yep you got me is pretending. I don't know if anyone ever told you this.  But when someone admits that they were wrong. And gives the reason for their being wrong on not doing the research themselves. But acknowledging that fact,after it is brought to their attention regardless of the time frame (30 sec. or 30 days). Well that's called an admittance,it can even in some situations be called a humble one.  Again reading and comprehending, and now unerstanding context.

 

5. P.S. I had thought you implied that I was in middle school or had equivalent maturity/intelligence because: Instead of being quick to throw around secondary lunchroom buzzwords like, ignorance lies, stupid, or try and label someone a fanboy. Maybe you should've scrolled down and read more? If you meant "secondary" to mean "second-rate" or some other thing, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your statement. In my defense, it's easy to get a false positive on condescension in a post dripping with the real thing. Out of curiosity, what DID you mean by "secondary" here?

I meant secondary as in niddle school, but not saying you were in middle school. Just meaning you're trying to throw those words around with the intent of making me seem foolish without taking the time, consideration or care to actually try to digest my points without jumping down my throat.  So I could see where you thought I was calling you immature directly.

 Now I'm officially done with you. You're pretty much just acting like an extreme asshole with this nonsense who's trying to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt why you're right and I'm wrong.  I mean for serious, what do you get kicks out of cutting and pasting for the sake of arguing?

Anyway in closing, my fault next time I want to post something on a prediction/sales analyzation/heavy speculation forum on the internet, I'll be sure to explain my every thought process, and go indepth with the most up-to-date real hardline facts that I can find.  I'll be sure to explain every painstaking detail, context of speech, and sentence structure that is running through my mind, as well as provide footnotes, cliffnotes, and power points detailing my every view.  My bad.

And before you ask yes that is meant to be condescening. My bad I don't like people coming at me as assholes seemingly  for the sake of being an asshole, and as they say "if the shoe fits". Well you know the rest... Wait you probably don't so I spell it out for you: "wear it."

^wow you two have had a huge conversation

DAMN, near 300 posts !