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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U's main graphical disadvantage is the lack of a studio like Naughty Dog or Santa Monica

ninjablade on 14 July 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

You're still making the mistake of assuming 2D games are automatically simple an easy to do. They're not. Donkey Kong Country Returns was a system pusher, and was in development for 2 years before being announced just 5 months before release.

compared to a 3d games, yes they are and thats a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an inaccurate generalisation. 


any game developer will tell you it is dude, http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/16093/should-i-learn-2d-game-development-before-3d i have seen great playing and looking 2d game demos made by a 1 or 2 man team



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curl-6 on 14 July 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

You're still making the mistake of assuming 2D games are automatically simple an easy to do. They're not. Donkey Kong Country Returns was a system pusher, and was in development for 2 years before being announced just 5 months before release.

compared to a 3d games, yes they are and thats a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an inaccurate generalisation. 


any game developer will tell you it is dude, http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/16093/should-i-learn-2d-game-development-before-3d i have seen great playing and looking 2d game demos made by a 1 or 2 man team

Yeah, let's see 2 people make Donkey Kong Country Returns or Trine 2. It's often simpler but certainly not always.



ninjablade on 14 July 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

You're still making the mistake of assuming 2D games are automatically simple an easy to do. They're not. Donkey Kong Country Returns was a system pusher, and was in development for 2 years before being announced just 5 months before release.

compared to a 3d games, yes they are and thats a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an inaccurate generalisation. 


any game developer will tell you it is dude, http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/16093/should-i-learn-2d-game-development-before-3d i have seen great playing and looking 2d game demos made by a 1 or 2 man team

Yeah, let's see 2 people make Donkey Kong Country Returns or Trine 2. It's often simpler but certainly not always.

sonic fan remix looks better then both and made by one person
you can play the demo yourself, it runs and looks amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haGTtrDBLWA



curl-6 on 14 July 2013
ninjablade said:

sonic fan remix looks better then both and made by one person
you can play the demo yourself, it runs and looks amazing.

Far more simple than both in terms of design and mechanics though.

We're getting off the mark  though; nothing's stopping Nintendo keeping big games due out by holiday 2014 under wras. The idea that we've seen everything to come next year already is ridiculous.



Egann on 14 July 2013
Scoobes said:
Egann said:
Scoobes said:

I think most people with a half-decent gaming PC would tell you that the difference is pretty significant, and that's based on multiplatform games that were designed around the HD consoles. With developer moving to designing games with extra power as the core, we'll be able to see the major differences that extra power gives.


I have one of those mid-range PCs. As little as a year ago, that was true in spades. Not so much anymore.

What do you mean? Not a lot has changed and Crysis 3, Battlefield 3 and Metro Last Light are clearly and significantly superior to anything on current gen consoles.

Because the Wii U matches a middle-power PC. It may be RAM-anemic, but it has added bonuses like eDRAM and sizable CPU caches. The upcoming Sony and Microsoft hardware matches a middle-high end PC. The question has changed from "can PC's be significantly better than gen 7?" to "can they be significantly better than gen 8?" The difference will always be there, but it's also shrinking with every generation.



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curl-6 on 14 July 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

You're still making the mistake of assuming 2D games are automatically simple an easy to do. They're not. Donkey Kong Country Returns was a system pusher, and was in development for 2 years before being announced just 5 months before release.

compared to a 3d games, yes they are and thats a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an inaccurate generalisation. 


any game developer will tell you it is dude, http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/16093/should-i-learn-2d-game-development-before-3d i have seen great playing and looking 2d game demos made by a 1 or 2 man team

Yeah, let's see 2 people make Donkey Kong Country Returns or Trine 2. It's often simpler but certainly not always.

sonic fan remix looks better then both and made by one person
you can play the demo yourself, it runs and looks amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haGTtrDBLWA

Oh, and that doesn't look even remotely close to as good as Trine 2.



ninjablade on 14 July 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

You're still making the mistake of assuming 2D games are automatically simple an easy to do. They're not. Donkey Kong Country Returns was a system pusher, and was in development for 2 years before being announced just 5 months before release.

compared to a 3d games, yes they are and thats a fact.

No, it's not a fact. It's an inaccurate generalisation. 


any game developer will tell you it is dude, http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/16093/should-i-learn-2d-game-development-before-3d i have seen great playing and looking 2d game demos made by a 1 or 2 man team

Yeah, let's see 2 people make Donkey Kong Country Returns or Trine 2. It's often simpler but certainly not always.

sonic fan remix looks better then both and made by one person
you can play the demo yourself, it runs and looks amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haGTtrDBLWA

Oh, and that doesn't look even remotely close to as good as Trine 2.


trine 2 looks impressive but all those games you mentioned are not and your talking about the most technically impressive 2d game availble.



curl-6 on 14 July 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

sonic fan remix looks better then both and made by one person
you can play the demo yourself, it runs and looks amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haGTtrDBLWA

Oh, and that doesn't look even remotely close to as good as Trine 2.


trine 2 looks impressive but all those games you mentioned are not and your talking about the most technically impressive 2d game availble.

Donkey Kong Country Returns is a game that took a plenty of time, talent, and manpower to make. Being a Wii game, of course it's not going to  look like Trine 2, it was bound by hardware limitations, but it is not a low budget or easy to make game.


Again though, you're drifting off topic. What's stopping Nintendo from keeping a big production under wraps 17 months out? Nothing, they've done it before. Hell, Galaxy 2 wasn't even known until 11 months before release.



Scoobes on 14 July 2013
Egann said:
Scoobes said:

What do you mean? Not a lot has changed and Crysis 3, Battlefield 3 and Metro Last Light are clearly and significantly superior to anything on current gen consoles.

Because the Wii U matches a middle-power PC. It may be RAM-anemic, but it has added bonuses like eDRAM and sizable CPU caches. The upcoming Sony and Microsoft hardware matches a middle-high end PC. The question has changed from "can PC's be significantly better than gen 7?" to "can they be significantly better than gen 8?" The difference will always be there, but it's also shrinking with every generation.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say a WiiU equals a middle power PC. Maybe 2-3 years ago considering the relatively low power of the GPU, but even then, the HD4850 would outperform the GPU in the WiiU. By todays standards it's only slightly better than the integrated Intel HD4000 chips (even if it is more feature rich) that's included with nearly all Intel CPUs. That's not including the relatively low powered CPU, the low amount of RAM or the low bandwidth of the main system RAM when compared to the GDDR RAM found on discrete graphics cards.

Anyway, my point was that PC Gamers have seen a significant difference between what's currently on the WiiU and games on High spec on PC. Most of these games were designed with PS3 & 360 in mind yet the difference was quite obvious. Now games are going to be designed with PS4 and X1 in mind the difference between the WiiU and new consoles coming out should be quite clear.

I acually think the difference between PC and consoles will take less time to become apparent then last gen. As powerful as these consoles are they're not more powerful then a top end PC and by the time the next graphics architecture is out the difference should be quite plain to see. However, I also think a lot of the differences will need to be observed in play rather than just screenshots; physics, interactivity levels and dynamic vs static lighting are where it'll be most obvious.




Get your Portable ID!

Zero999 on 14 July 2013
forethought14 said:
Zero999 said:

Bolded: I'm 100% sure people have to understand that wii u has all the horsepower it needs.

See, that's not the point though. The difference is moderately large, but it's not big enough to say that it will be "impossible" to port games. I'm certain that Wii U has enough horsepower to surpass PS3/360 and run PS4/X1 games one way or another, but considering how developers are treating it, they won't want to port games for the console if it will give them nothing in return. Next-generation is going to be more expensive to develop for than the current gen, and downporting it to Wii U will likely be quite costly. Again, it won't be impossible, but the fact that they think they'll need to invest quite a bit to make it happen is something they're looking down on, and that's the problem with Wii U's overall power. Recall that many developers are claiming it to be "underpowered". More powerful than PS360 for sure, (developers who say otherwise need to get their acts together, looking at you, all of EA) but not as powerful as they want.

Wii U not selling well right now can also play a factor to those developer decisions. If Wii U were selling immensly, then I'm sure a few developers would consider next-gen ports to the system. I guess I should have mentioned that sales are also affecting their decisions, combined with the specs, and the fact that the architecture is very different. 

bolded: hell no. you don't understand what scalability is, do you? and wii u isn't too far behind the others in the first place. as it was said many times before, wii u vs ps4/xone versions will be like the same game on a pc at medium settings vs high/ultra