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Forums - Gaming - Simplified explanation of how the PS4 is twice as strong graphically as the Xbox One

secpierre34 on 13 July 2013
ListerOfSmeg said:
Nobody should post if they don't know what they are talking about? You didn't exactly do a hard breakdown there dude. Just some basic math here and there mixed with opinions. Have both consoles specs been 100% confirmed yet?Since streaming games are done by the host CPu/GPu, wouldn't we need to know those as well because those are where the real limits for both consoles will be graphically. How do you know that they will run that close to a 7700 series card when their cases are not or do not appear to be very efficient at cooling? Seems like we would need to wait for release of both consoles to see what they really do and whats really inside. If they had to limit power to account for heat your numbers may be way off.

"

And...? What's your point?

Look at Genji for the PS3 launch, is that representative of what the PS3 could do? Or GUN for the Xbox 360?

Driveclub is a tier 2 type game, while Forza is tier 1 (for consoles, at least). Bad comparisons.

Wait til Gran Turismo 7.
"

You do understand that the X1 will also get better over time as well? So if it is already showing itself superior to PS4, it will continue to do so.

Did you read his comment. He is not saying that the ps4 will be better when gran turismo 7 comes out, he is saying that the devs will be better. Think indie game on a 360 vs AAA games. They look very different not because the hardware is "suddenly" different but because of the dev working on it. Evolution is a small studio, sucker punch is also a small studio. Comparing  games is a lot more complex then them being in the same genre.



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secpierre34 on 13 July 2013
FiliusDei said:
I'm not a graphics person but why isn't killzone, knack, driveclub and second son running at 60fps???

I know the ps4 is a very powerful machine...so I was expecting 60fps/1080p on all first party titles.

Anyone thinks the next uncharted will be 60fps??

First, the more powerful machine can produce more beautiful games. But that depends on who is making the game. Evolution is a small studio in comparison to the team behind forza. Think indie developer vs AAA developers, they have the same machines but their titles look different why is that. How much can you squeeze how of the machine. How can you do that? Money, time, development tools, ect.


Second, the ps1 can run games at 60 fps. The frame count has nothing to do with hardware. It does somewhat if you have the same exact code for two different mahcines ala computers. You can choose to get 30 fps with twice as much compute power to graphics or vice versa. So no the next uncharted will not run at 60fps, most likely 30.



ListerOfSmeg on 13 July 2013

"Only had access to 4 gigs of RAM"

Yeah that must have been a real problem for them going from 512mb to 4 gigs. Especially when you consider most PC games only use 2 gigs atm.

They had more RAM than any developer before them but you come off like its a severe handicap to be limited to 4 gigs of RAM



TimCliveroller on 13 July 2013

I think Drive Club is technically superior and GT7 will rape every other game. It will look twice as better. I bow before greatness.
Now, can we go on?



Ex Graphics Whore.

A203D on 13 July 2013

I've heard rumors that Microsoft might upgrade the RAM in the Xbox One just before release.

I think the issue here is that IF the PS4 can do 60 FPS in comparison to 30 FPS on the Xbox; well what is there to suggest multiplatform developers will make a PS4 version running at 60 FPS and an Xbox version at 30 FPS?

Why not just make a single 30 FPS game and release that same version for each console. I can see first party studios utilizing the hardware more effectively, yet I doubt third parties will have much need; will it be detrimental to their sales? Maybe, maybe not.



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landguy1 on 13 July 2013
Captain_Tom said:

Background Information:

-In today's day and age the GPU is the bottleneck LONG before the CPU.  Thus the GPU will be at the center of what is compared.

-Both consoles use the same AMD 7000 series architecture so they can be directly compared to their desktop equivalent.

-I have exstensive experience overclocking and using many of the cards from the 7000 series.

-In my expereince, the 7000 series benifits directly from changes in Core/VRAM speed.  This sounds obvious but what I mean is when I overclock my 7970, its in-game performance boost is equal to ((OverclockedCore/OriginalCore)+(OverclockedVRAM/OriginalVRAM))/2.

-Theoretical computational power does not translate directly into gaming performance.  For instance a 7970 is FAR more powerful computationally than the 680, but it is only a little stronger.

-Latency in memory is no where near as important as speed when it comes to grachics cards.

-The most important specs are CoreClock, VRAMClock, bandwidth, and # of compute units.  That is what I will analyze here.

-The HD 7870 is roughly twice as strong in game performance than the HD 7770.

Comparing Xbox One to the HD 7770

The 7770 has:

-10 Compute Units

-1000MHZ Core

-4500 GHz VRAM

-128-bit Bandwidth

 

The Xbox One has;

-12 CU

-800MHz Core

-2133MHz VRAM

-256-Bit

So first off the Xbox One has 20% less core speed while the 7770 has 20% less cores; thus they cancel each other out.  The Xbox One has double the bandwidth so its VRAM should be effectively 4166MHz compared to the 7770's 4500MHz.  The ESRAM and the small tweaks to the One's architecture should make up the rest of VRAM difference.  Thus as you can see they very easily compare to each other and it is more than fair to say the One effectively has a 7770 in it.

 

Comparing the PS4 to the 7870:

The HD 7870 has:

-20 CU

-1000MHz Core

-4800MHz VRAM

-256-bit

 

The PS4 has:

-18 CU

-800MHz Core

-5500MHz VRAM

-256-Bit

So the PS4 seems 10% in the CU department and 20% weaker in the core speed area.  But the VRAM in the 7870 is 15% slower.  So we are left with a 15% difficency that will easily be made up by the PS4 GPU's special Architectural and HSA improvements to round it off to a 7870.

 

Other things to factor into the overall performance difference:

-The PS4 has a secondary back-up processor that handles all of the background functions so the main CPU can be used in its entirety.  However the Xbox One does not have one, and as such will have to dedicate at least one core to maintaining the 3 OS's.

-The PS4 has access to 7GB of RAM while the One has access to 5GB.  This will  reduce the size of the textures the One can use, and how many enimies/things can be used/shown at once.

 

So at the end of the day these are the facts.  I laid them out step-by-step.  People who say the PS4 may run at 60FPS while One runs at 30FPS with lower res textures are not fanboy, they just know hardware and can do math.  Please only comment if you know what you are talking about, and thank you for reading this far! ;)

your basic math is correct.  From there, everything is an opinion of a guess.  Because you and every person on the web haven't put there hands on the actual equipment or even actual detailed spec sheets.  We won't know what the actual capabilities of either unit until a tear down has been completed after launch.  Both systems are similar in nature and from a common sense standpoint, the PS4 does "seem" to have a more powerful system architecture.  But, when a card or chip is customized in any way, they could very well be impossible to compare by short descriptions that are intended to not tell you anything of import.  Like i said, we will know more as we get closer and M$ and Sony reveal more details, but the real answer will probably not be had til a month or two after launch.



SaberSaurus on 13 July 2013
kowenicki said:
So we will see far more 60fps games on the PS4 than on the One?

when?

Drive club and Forza disagree. KIllzone is saying nothing.

Someone here laughed his ass off and told me that it would be pathetic if driving games arent 60fps in the next gen... he was a PS4 fan responding to the Forza confirmation of 60fps you see....

alas drive club has let him down already.

Has drive club been confirmed to run at 30FPS when it launches?



   

Locknuts on 13 July 2013

Lol this again.



peshkavus on 13 July 2013

lol PS4 are all talks but fail to deliver. hilarious.



Xenostar on 13 July 2013

Comparing forza and drive club is pointless, there different games, and the evolution devs said they showed an early build at E3 and that we can expect performance to improve alot.

The multiplats is where the comparisons will start, unfortunately we will probably have to wait for release for this, as i doubt we will see companies sending out review copies for both platforms.

I expect all eyes will be on watchdogs come November.