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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft's "indie" gaming strategy for Xbox One

theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
So if I want to make a ps3 game, I have to make a vita game first.
How does this make sense to you guys, when instead I could just make a nintendo game like I wanted to in the first place.
Why the restrictions? You know, they'll just make games for a competitor if they feel like they're not being allowed to make the game they want.


If Sony made dev tools where a dev could make a game for Vita and PS3/4 in one swoop, they totally have the right to ask for the dev to make a Vita/PS3/4 game. Problem is that they don't.

Microsoft won't asking devs to make 4 different versions of the game, but to start the development on Windows 8 and let the SDK take care of the porting. 

Umm, they're not asking, they're telling.

Sony doesn't mandate what hoops indies jump through to make games. It's probably the reason why indies adore the ps4 and loathe the xb1, but hey, what do they know?

Oh, and to publish on the x1? You need to have a publisher. No self-publishing. That means you went out of your way to code for xbox, now have to get a publisher (who will take profits from every system you publish for, even the ones you can self-publish on), or publish through MS, who will take a bigger share of your profits, and require timed exclusivity, resulting in backlash from fans, and less profits for the devs.

So smart.

Sony CANT offer 3x the demographic with no extra work. Unless Sony can make their PS4 code set the same as their Android phones and then magically make a Viao running android to. 

Microsoft have designed the 3 systems to use the same code. So making a dev develop the game in Windows 8 SDk benefits the developer HUGELY. As the Xbox One can run it also. same work as 1 indie PS4 game gives the developer the chance to sell it on 3 systems. 

Sounds like Microsoft really hate the developer. Sarcasm/



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Multimedialover said:
theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
So if I want to make a ps3 game, I have to make a vita game first.
How does this make sense to you guys, when instead I could just make a nintendo game like I wanted to in the first place.
Why the restrictions? You know, they'll just make games for a competitor if they feel like they're not being allowed to make the game they want.


If Sony made dev tools where a dev could make a game for Vita and PS3/4 in one swoop, they totally have the right to ask for the dev to make a Vita/PS3/4 game. Problem is that they don't.

Microsoft won't asking devs to make 4 different versions of the game, but to start the development on Windows 8 and let the SDK take care of the porting. 

Umm, they're not asking, they're telling.

Sony doesn't mandate what hoops indies jump through to make games. It's probably the reason why indies adore the ps4 and loathe the xb1, but hey, what do they know?

Oh, and to publish on the x1? You need to have a publisher. No self-publishing. That means you went out of your way to code for xbox, now have to get a publisher (who will take profits from every system you publish for, even the ones you can self-publish on), or publish through MS, who will take a bigger share of your profits, and require timed exclusivity, resulting in backlash from fans, and less profits for the devs.

So smart.

Sony CANT offer 3x the demographic with no extra work. Unless Sony can make their PS4 code set the same as their Android phones and then magically make a Viao running android to. 

Microsoft have designed the 3 systems to use the same code. So making a dev develop the game in Windows 8 SDk benefits the developer HUGELY. As the Xbox One can run it also. same work as 1 indie PS4 game gives the developer the chance to sell it on 3 systems. 

Sounds like Microsoft really hate the developer. Sarcasm/

LOL You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Unity engine can port very easily and cheaply to every platform. The look on your face must be priceless. UNITY U-N-I-T-Y, as in "everything together". It allows coding for any system with minimal effort. And guess what? Almost every indie dev ALREADY USES IT. HAHAHAHAHA

The sarcasm tag makes this post especially priceless. Get a clue.

And sorry, but this is obligatory:

"FAIL"

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.



theprof00 said:
Multimedialover said:

 

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.

Huh? Windows 8 SDK doesn't exist? I swear I used it 3 months ago...



disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
Multimedialover said:

 

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.

Huh? Windows 8 SDK doesn't exist? I swear I used it 3 months ago...

Not the one that allows porting to the other platforms, like xb1.

Currently, the way to do it is to use Unity.



theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
Multimedialover said:

 

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.

Huh? Windows 8 SDK doesn't exist? I swear I used it 3 months ago...

Not the one that allows porting to the other platforms, like xb1.

Currently, the way to do it is to use Unity.


Unity is currently in beta on Widnows phone and Windows 8...

I don't see why Xbox 1 won't support it, especially when the app store and SDK will be very similar to Win 8.



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disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
Multimedialover said:

 

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.

Huh? Windows 8 SDK doesn't exist? I swear I used it 3 months ago...

Not the one that allows porting to the other platforms, like xb1.

Currently, the way to do it is to use Unity.


Unity is currently in beta on Widnows phone and Windows 8...

I don't see why Xbox 1 won't support it, especially when the app store and SDK will be very similar to Win 8.

I'm not saying it won't EVER exist, I'm saying that it currently doesn't.

In fact, just a couple months ago windows 8 sdk was incompatible with windows phone. Things aren't so cut and dry as the pretty little words in the OP. Still no self-publishing, still no software ready to port to xb1, still need to program on a different dev software than the one that is currently the most supported.

Again, it's a rock and a hard place. A dev wants their work on all markets they have to make big sacrifices. MS is bullying devs, just ask any indie. Better yet, you don't even need to ask. They've been very forthcoming on their own, publically speaking out against their policies. MS' response? If you want to work with us, jump through more hoops.

Of course, it's fine for someone like you, who already uses the windows 8 sdk, but it's a different story for others.

PS: And yes, I know Unity is on beta on w8 and phone. They have a partnership as of recently. Still doesn't fix self-publishing.



Vetteman94 said:
disolitude said:
fauzman said:
I don't get it. In that case why not just allow windows8 etc games to be selfpublished as well. Also not all devs may want to publish on RT/8/phone. Wouldn't this just be more of a hassle for them.

In addition, from dev comments they seem to far pref


Win 8 apps and games are self published. There are members on this forums that made windows 8 apps.

MS just wants people who want to self publish games to treat them like apps and make them for Windows first. They will probably talk about cross platform play, unified leaderboards and other cool things to justify it as well as the obvious broader reach of users that the games can be sold to.

In terms of hassle, yeah some devs may only want to make console games and not optimize for touch screens. Those devs obviously don't realize the huge market they are leaving on the table by not publishing on Windows 8, Android, iOS...I'm not sure Microsoft can do much there other than show them some numbers in terms of potential gamers they are missing out on.

 

It may be a huge market but is it one that will buy their games?   Most Indie games start out between 9.99-14.99. How well do games at those prices sell?  I believe every game on the top 100 games sold on Android is 4.99 or less, Minecraft being the exception at 6.99.  That would be a pretty hard sell to an indie developer to have to design the game to work on so many different devices with ouy a decent return on it. I just dont see games priced in that range being something that mobile users or even Windows 8 app users as something that will justify the work put in on it.

Why?  Xbox Indie Games currently start at $1.00.  By offering a game via Windows 8 Apps Store, then updating the code for Xbox One, they could provide the same features with minimal code changes. 



theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:


Unity is currently in beta on Widnows phone and Windows 8...

I don't see why Xbox 1 won't support it, especially when the app store and SDK will be very similar to Win 8.

I'm not saying it won't EVER exist, I'm saying that it currently doesn't.

In fact, just a couple months ago windows 8 sdk was incompatible with windows phone. Things aren't so cut and dry as the pretty little words in the OP. Still no self-publishing, still no software ready to port to xb1, still need to program on a different dev software than the one that is currently the most supported.

Again, it's a rock and a hard place. A dev wants their work on all markets they have to make big sacrifices. MS is bullying devs, just ask any indie. Better yet, you don't even need to ask. They've been very forthcoming on their own, publically speaking out against their policies. MS' response? If you want to work with us, jump through more hoops.

Of course, it's fine for someone like you, who already uses the windows 8 sdk, but it's a different story for others.


Its no different on iOS and Android to a lesser extent. If you want to provide a quality user experiences and standards you have to place hoops in place...

You don't realize other elements that are involved.

For example, most apps use an advertising to offset the free to play model. There are a handful advertising technologies and ad exchanges out there and none of them support the Xbox. Microsoft has a problem with Xbox 360 as all advertising has to be sold through them using their custom technology. I guarantee you that it won't work like the on Xbox 1, as they will use the Windows 8 SDK to integrate with major players in the advertising world.  Even windows 8 apps don't support as many advertising products as they should and Microsoft is working hard to correct that.

Then we move on to video authentication. Adobe Primetime is the current leader for IPTV video authentication and ad insertion. They support 5 platforms right now... iOS, Android, Windows 8, HTML5 and Flash. If them make it seamless for Adobe to integrate their authentication technology, porting those streaming movie and sports apps will be a breeze.

There has to be unification of products and services, at the cost of a few hoops devs will need to jump to reap the benefits later. Microsoft has been working on that for 3 years now... There is no other way to maximize the reach of their product.



disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
Multimedialover said:

 

ALSO: Fyi, to OP. Link says nothing about self-publishing, and devs say that you STILL need to get a publisher to put a game on xb1, regardless if you use the hinted at SDK that actually doesn't currently exist.

Huh? Windows 8 SDK doesn't exist? I swear I used it 3 months ago...

Not the one that allows porting to the other platforms, like xb1.

Currently, the way to do it is to use Unity.


Unity is currently in beta on Widnows phone and Windows 8...

I don't see why Xbox 1 won't support it, especially when the app store and SDK will be very similar to Win 8.

I'm not saying it won't EVER exist, I'm saying that it currently doesn't.

In fact, just a couple months ago windows 8 sdk was incompatible with windows phone. Things aren't so cut and dry as the pretty little words in the OP. Still no self-publishing, still no software ready to port to xb1, still need to program on a different dev software than the one that is currently the most supported.

Again, it's a rock and a hard place. A dev wants their work on all markets they have to make big sacrifices. MS is bullying devs, just ask any indie. Better yet, you don't even need to ask. They've been very forthcoming on their own, publically speaking out against their policies. MS' response? If you want to work with us, jump through more hoops.

Of course, it's fine for someone like you, who already uses the windows 8 sdk, but it's a different story for others.


Its no different on iOS and Android to a lesser extent. If you want to provide a quality user experiences and standards you have to place hoops in place...

You don't realize other elements that are involved.

For example, most apps use an advertising to offset the free to play model. There are a handful advertising technologies and ad exchanges out there and none of them support the Xbox. Microsoft has a problem with Xbox 360 as all advertising has to be sold through them using their custom technology. I guarantee you that it won't work like the on Xbox 1, as they will use the Windows 8 SDK to integrate with major players in the advertising world.  Even windows 8 apps don't support as many advertising products as they should and Microsoft is working hard to correct that.

Then we move on to video authentication. Adobe Primetime is the current leader for IPTV video authentication and ad insertion. They support 5 platforms right now... iOS, Android, Windows 8, HTML5 and Flash. If them make it seamless for Adobe to integrate their authentication technology, porting those streaming movie and sports apps will be a breeze.

There has to be unification of products and services, at the cost of a few hoops devs will need to jump to reap the benefits later. Microsoft has been working on that for 3 years now... There is no other way to maximize the reach of their product.

I'm not saying I don't understand the whole strategy, though thank you for the information on advertising and video.

What I am saying is that this doesn't fix the problem that indies are currently having with MS and developing for xb1.

 

 



Adinnieken said:
Vetteman94 said:

It may be a huge market but is it one that will buy their games?   Most Indie games start out between 9.99-14.99. How well do games at those prices sell?  I believe every game on the top 100 games sold on Android is 4.99 or less, Minecraft being the exception at 6.99.  That would be a pretty hard sell to an indie developer to have to design the game to work on so many different devices with ouy a decent return on it. I just dont see games priced in that range being something that mobile users or even Windows 8 app users as something that will justify the work put in on it.

Why?  Xbox Indie Games currently start at $1.00.  By offering a game via Windows 8 Apps Store, then updating the code for Xbox One, they could provide the same features with minimal code changes. 

Thank you for providing information that has been repeated numerous times on here.   Still doesnt answer all the issues though