By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft's "indie" gaming strategy for Xbox One

Vetteman94 on 03 July 2013
disolitude said:
Vetteman94 said:

Its not much different but how well do those games at the higher end sell?  And would it justify the higher cost of development to publish it on multiple devices, especially when that wasnt your intent.    

I just fail see this as a win win situation,  considering MS is the one who benefits the most out of it instead of the developer.   If they wanted to develop for mobile devices, I think they would be doing that already.  Basically I see the driving Indie developers away with this,  why develop for a console who forces restrictions on you when there are others that don't.

There is no higher cost of development. SDK takes care of everything...

My company developed a windows 8 app and to make it available on Windows RT its literally just a checkbox. To make it available on Windows Phone, only a few lines of code need to be changed... I assume Xbox One will be the same since it runs on Windows. Should be 0 extra development cost.

Also, if you look at Xbox Live Indie games, a very good portion of those games are already on mobile platforms (30% I'd estimate). Microsoft just doesn't want these games going to iOS, Android and Xbox only...they want some tracking on Windows platforms since it literally a checkbox to port them over.

Again, I don't see any fails...

I am sure not all instances are as simple as the one your company ran into,  otherwise that number wouldnt be 30% but much higher.

Well I guess its then up to Microsoft to explain how easy it is for this to happen.  And given their recent history on that, it doesn't bode well for them.



Around the Network
disolitude on 03 July 2013
Vetteman94 said:
disolitude said:
Vetteman94 said:

Its not much different but how well do those games at the higher end sell?  And would it justify the higher cost of development to publish it on multiple devices, especially when that wasnt your intent.    

I just fail see this as a win win situation,  considering MS is the one who benefits the most out of it instead of the developer.   If they wanted to develop for mobile devices, I think they would be doing that already.  Basically I see the driving Indie developers away with this,  why develop for a console who forces restrictions on you when there are others that don't.

There is no higher cost of development. SDK takes care of everything...

My company developed a windows 8 app and to make it available on Windows RT its literally just a checkbox. To make it available on Windows Phone, only a few lines of code need to be changed... I assume Xbox One will be the same since it runs on Windows. Should be 0 extra development cost.

Also, if you look at Xbox Live Indie games, a very good portion of those games are already on mobile platforms (30% I'd estimate). Microsoft just doesn't want these games going to iOS, Android and Xbox only...they want some tracking on Windows platforms since it literally a checkbox to port them over.

Again, I don't see any fails...

I am sure not all instances are as simple as the one your company ran into,  otherwise that number wouldnt be 30% but much higher.

Well I guess its then up to Microsoft to explain how easy it is for this to happen.  And given their recent history on that, it doesn't bode well for them.


The reason only 30% of XBL games are ported is because they used a different set of tools (XNA and not Win 8 SDK). Microsoft consolidated their app development software with the launch of Windows 8.

And yeah, it literally is just checking the box. Visit WPCentral and read some dev stories between Windows 8, Win RT and Windows Phone. 

I just think you're giving Microsoft a hard time here without any valid reason. 



Multimedialover on 03 July 2013
EricFabian said:
disolitude said:
EricFabian said:
Does not look a smart move, but I hope it works. I hpe everyone could play games like "Soul Saga", "A Hat in Time" etc


Im curious why you think this isnt a smart move? Ive played some awesomely fun games on my iPad and Surface RT which could work on consoles perfectly fine. Something like Jetpack Joyride or Endless Skater is really fun to play.

It also gives Microsoft some extra leverage to get apps made for Windows 8 and phone...


I've played some awesome games on my 3DS and I think they could work on consoles, buy hey why not make a Wii U version first?

I dont think you quite understand this.

 

Xbox One has windows 8 Kernell set. It can play Windows 8 apps. Wp8 has Windows 8 kernell set. Again the same thing. 

Microsoft want the indies to develop their games as apps so all 3 systems can run it with no extra coding or work. Well except for the controls. 

That is win win for the developer. 3 demographics with the same work as 1 demographic. Huge plus for devs as the pool for sales with the same work is 3 x the size. Sounds like the best option out there for indie devs anywhere.



psrock on 03 July 2013

Seriously OP, you are a very smart guy, but I am very disappointed you've been unable to see that MS is not doing fans/dev a service by their crappy policy.

Why is it so difficult to realize these developers don't want to do things on Win8, And they should not be forced to. MS has become a bully and they are going to pay dearly for that.



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
disolitude on 03 July 2013
Multimedialover said:
EricFabian said:
disolitude said:
EricFabian said:
Does not look a smart move, but I hope it works. I hpe everyone could play games like "Soul Saga", "A Hat in Time" etc


Im curious why you think this isnt a smart move? Ive played some awesomely fun games on my iPad and Surface RT which could work on consoles perfectly fine. Something like Jetpack Joyride or Endless Skater is really fun to play.

It also gives Microsoft some extra leverage to get apps made for Windows 8 and phone...


I've played some awesome games on my 3DS and I think they could work on consoles, buy hey why not make a Wii U version first?

I dont think you quite understand this.

 

Xbox One has windows 8 Kernell set. It can play Windows 8 apps. Wp8 has Windows 8 kernell set. Again the same thing. 

Microsoft want the indies to develop their games as apps so all 3 systems can run it with no extra coding or work. Well except for the controls. 

That is win win for the developer. 3 demographics with the same work as 1 demographic. Huge plus for devs as the pool for sales with the same work is 3 x the size. Sounds like the best option out there for indie devs anywhere.

People here are just very close minded...People just don't understand fragmentation, including indie devs.

There are many awesome things that come of this. For example, a big number of Windows 8 touch screen games support the Xbox controller. By making sure Xbox games are coded through the Windows 8 SDK, Microsoft can ensure that games support controllers on all platforms (not just touch or keyboard and mouse), they can have devs utilize the same leaderboards on all platforms like many games already do.

The can also encourage cross platform play like SKulls of the Shogun, Air Soccer fever and Galactic reign do already.



Around the Network
Multimedialover on 03 July 2013
psrock said:
Seriously OP, you are a very smart guy, but I am very disappointed you've been unable to see that MS is not doing fans/dev a service by their crappy policy.

Why is it so difficult to realize these developers don't want to do things on Win8, And they should not be forced to. MS has become a bully and they are going to pay dearly for that.

No what Microsoft has done is increase the chances of revenue for the same amount of work by x3. No extra work as WP8, Windows 8 and Xbox One can all play the exact same Windows 8 app. 

So actually, devs will benefit from this 3x that of developing for PS4, IOS or android.



Vetteman94 on 03 July 2013
disolitude said:

The reason only 30% of XBL games are ported is because they used a different set of tools (XNA and not Win 8 SDK). Microsoft consolidated their app development software with the launch of Windows 8.

And yeah, it literally is just checking the box. Visit WPCentral and read some dev stories between Windows 8, Win RT and Windows Phone. 

I just think you're giving Microsoft a hard time here without any valid reason. 

Just trying to understand the reasoning behind this.   

Im just not giving them a free pass like some seem to have no problem doing



gigantor21 on 03 July 2013
disolitude said:
fauzman said:
I don't get it. In that case why not just allow windows8 etc games to be selfpublished as well. Also not all devs may want to publish on RT/8/phone. Wouldn't this just be more of a hassle for them.

In addition, from dev comments they seem to far pref


Win 8 apps and games are self published. There are members on this forums that made windows 8 apps.

MS just wants people who want to self publish games to treat them like apps and make them for Windows first. They will probably talk about cross platform play, unified leaderboards and other cool things to justify it as well as the obvious broader reach of users that the games can be sold to.

In terms of hassle, yeah some devs may only want to make console games and not optimize for touch screens. Those devs obviously don't realize the huge market they are leaving on the table by not publishing on Windows 8, Android, iOS...I'm not sure Microsoft can do much there other than show them some numbers in terms of potential gamers they are missing out on.

 

Or perhaps the issue is that they'd want to make hardware for the separate platforms that leverages each of their individual strengths? Like making stuff for phones that maximizes touchscreen use, while building games for XBL around the controller and/or Kinect? That's been going on for years.

Having to build for the whole Xbox ecosystem just to get your game on the actual Xbox seems needlessly restrictive to me. Allowing self-publishing on all platforms would be much more flexible.



Have some time to kill? Read my shitty games blog. http://www.pixlbit.com/blogs/586/gigantor21

:D

theprof00 on 03 July 2013
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
So if I want to make a ps3 game, I have to make a vita game first.
How does this make sense to you guys, when instead I could just make a nintendo game like I wanted to in the first place.
Why the restrictions? You know, they'll just make games for a competitor if they feel like they're not being allowed to make the game they want.


If Sony made dev tools where a dev could make a game for Vita and PS3/4 in one swoop, they totally have the right to ask for the dev to make a Vita/PS3/4 game. Problem is that they don't.

Microsoft won't asking devs to make 4 different versions of the game, but to start the development on Windows 8 and let the SDK take care of the porting. 

Umm, they're not asking, they're telling.

Sony doesn't mandate what hoops indies jump through to make games. It's probably the reason why indies adore the ps4 and loathe the xb1, but hey, what do they know?

Oh, and to publish on the x1? You need to have a publisher. No self-publishing. That means you went out of your way to code for xbox, now have to get a publisher (who will take profits from every system you publish for, even the ones you can self-publish on), or publish through MS, who will take a bigger share of your profits, and require timed exclusivity, resulting in backlash from fans, and less profits for the devs.

So smart.



theprof00 on 03 July 2013
Multimedialover said:
psrock said:
Seriously OP, you are a very smart guy, but I am very disappointed you've been unable to see that MS is not doing fans/dev a service by their crappy policy.

Why is it so difficult to realize these developers don't want to do things on Win8, And they should not be forced to. MS has become a bully and they are going to pay dearly for that.

No what Microsoft has done is increase the chances of revenue for the same amount of work by x3. No extra work as WP8, Windows 8 and Xbox One can all play the exact same Windows 8 app. 

So actually, devs will benefit from this 3x that of developing for PS4, IOS or android.

Actually no, because:

1. no self-publishing
2. Windows marketplace is more than a thousand times smaller than android and ios
3. Less than 5% marketshare
4. Requires timed exclusivity to their platforms. (Hey wanna make an android app? Nope, it has to be on windows phone for 6 months first)
5. No help from MS (Sony will give you a dev kit for free)
6. Must pay to update your game
7. Make less money, since MS will have to publish your content

It's easily much much worse.

(Also, they already can port their software to several different platforms. But to be on xb1, you need to publish with MS, where you then are restricted to timed exclusivity, which means you just traded 8 huge marketplaces for 3 small ones)