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Conina said:

Bofferbrauer2 said:

I would rather opt for the 5700X/12700 non-k to make sure I don't run into a core bottleneck if I plan to use the CPU for several years.

Yeah, I wouldn't buy a CPU with less cores and threads than a PS5 / Xbox Series console.

That could backfire in new multiplatform games after the (console) crossgen phase.

Honestly can't see this happening. Granted some consoles games are much better optimised on consoles, the PS5/XSX CPU's are only Zen 2's running at 3.5-3.6Ghz. Which, going by synthetic benchmarks.. is around the performance of 6 core Zen 3 or ADL in multi-threaded workloads (give or take), though the former gets their ass handed to them in 3D game performance. Some PS5 APU's that didn't make the grade got repurposed into 4700S. These are clocked higher than consoles.

Passmarks for both -

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+4700S&id=4309

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+5600X&id=3859

Last edited by hinch - on 18 April 2022

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Captain_Yuri said:

So as some of you may know, I have not been having a good time with my RGB fans. The Lian Li SL120s.

Ever since I got them, they have been giving me a lot of issues and I was not able to figure out why. They kept ramping up and down which didn't make any sense because they are all plugged into a controller that controls them through their own software. And I have the software set the Lian Li fans at their lowest setting with manual mode so there really shouldn't be any reason for them to ramp up. Yet they do and it's very random. Personally, I don't mind the noise when I am gaming but when I am working? I want a quiet PC. So I was going to say F it and replace them with 6 Noctua NF-A12x25 sometime this week.

But last week, Asus had a sale on their Strix Flare RGB keyboard for $100. It's the lowest price the keyboard has gotten and my Razer keyboard's volume control is broken and I wanted to see how blue switches felt since I have been on Browns for a long time. So I was like, why not.

So I got the keyboard, uninstalled the Razer software and have been using it... Since then... My Lian Li fans have been behaving the way they should... Like... What in the actual fuck Razer... There shouldn't be any reason why Razer software should be interacting with Lian Li but I guess somehow they have been?

I suppose my first mistake was getting a Razer keyboard in the first place...

My biggest gripe with RGB Mice and keyboards, is that they all demand their own propriety software to be installed, just to change the damn colours. I miss those rare M+K's that simple had a switch toggle for what colour you wanted and that was good enough for me, but these days it's software or you're stuck with a glaring rainbow effect, which I hate, because I play RTS/RPG's and my eyes end up getting distracted half the time by the colour cycle shifts (All I want is pure bright white or pure purple).

I have a razer keyboard myself, but the RGB isn't really as bright as I'd like it, even with the software installed, max brightness is a joke, and on top of that, I still have to have the app open just to change the colour, I've got up to 4 Razer processes in task manager and it's still shifting through rainbow cycles, despite me telling it to go for static white...

Apart from that, when it comes to case fans, I honestly don't like RGB for any internal PC component, mostly because I know I won't be looking at the internals of the case (as well as the case panel facing the other direction, meaning I wouldn't see anything at all). 

That being said, I can't believe LL fans are giving you that much trouble, especially after I heard nothing but good words from Jay two cents and Linus. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Captain_Yuri said:
Conina said:

Yeah, I wouldn't buy a CPU with less cores and threads than a PS5 / Xbox Series console.

That could backfire in new multiplatform games after the (console) crossgen phase.

That would be like saying you shouldn't buy an i5 2500k because the ps4 had 8 core cpu...

Last gen was silly to watch though, because even when we still had more cores and threads, we still saw games using less than those, unless they were sim games like Planet Coaster or Planet Animal, since those games were made for PC first and made use of the multiple threads and cores, but when a game is made for consoles, we see wonky results like one core being more utilised that the rest, or only 2-4 threads being used, tops. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Captain_Yuri said:

So as some of you may know, I have not been having a good time with my RGB fans. The Lian Li SL120s.

Ever since I got them, they have been giving me a lot of issues and I was not able to figure out why. They kept ramping up and down which didn't make any sense because they are all plugged into a controller that controls them through their own software. And I have the software set the Lian Li fans at their lowest setting with manual mode so there really shouldn't be any reason for them to ramp up. Yet they do and it's very random. Personally, I don't mind the noise when I am gaming but when I am working? I want a quiet PC. So I was going to say F it and replace them with 6 Noctua NF-A12x25 sometime this week.

But last week, Asus had a sale on their Strix Flare RGB keyboard for $100. It's the lowest price the keyboard has gotten and my Razer keyboard's volume control is broken and I wanted to see how blue switches felt since I have been on Browns for a long time. So I was like, why not.

So I got the keyboard, uninstalled the Razer software and have been using it... Since then... My Lian Li fans have been behaving the way they should... Like... What in the actual fuck Razer... There shouldn't be any reason why Razer software should be interacting with Lian Li but I guess somehow they have been?

I suppose my first mistake was getting a Razer keyboard in the first place...

My biggest gripe with RGB Mice and keyboards, is that they all demand their own propriety software to be installed, just to change the damn colours. I miss those rare M+K's that simple had a switch toggle for what colour you wanted and that was good enough for me, but these days it's software or you're stuck with a glaring rainbow effect, which I hate, because I play RTS/RPG's and my eyes end up getting distracted half the time by the colour cycle shifts (All I want is pure bright white or pure purple).

I have a razer keyboard myself, but the RGB isn't really as bright as I'd like it, even with the software installed, max brightness is a joke, and on top of that, I still have to have the app open just to change the colour, I've got up to 4 Razer processes in task manager and it's still shifting through rainbow cycles, despite me telling it to go for static white...

Apart from that, when it comes to case fans, I honestly don't like RGB for any internal PC component, mostly because I know I won't be looking at the internals of the case (as well as the case panel facing the other direction, meaning I wouldn't see anything at all). 

That being said, I can't believe LL fans are giving you that much trouble, especially after I heard nothing but good words from Jay two cents and Linus. 

Yea I think it's mainly because that I use my PC to work from home. Like most people who are getting these fans are getting them for their gaming builds where noise is fine. But when I am working, I want it to be as silent as possible and sadly, they can be loud when you get past 1300 rpm. Plus the controller they give you is terrible.

Chazore said:
Captain_Yuri said:

That would be like saying you shouldn't buy an i5 2500k because the ps4 had 8 core cpu...

Last gen was silly to watch though, because even when we still had more cores and threads, we still saw games using less than those, unless they were sim games like Planet Coaster or Planet Animal, since those games were made for PC first and made use of the multiple threads and cores, but when a game is made for consoles, we see wonky results like one core being more utilised that the rest, or only 2-4 threads being used, tops. 

Yea but the lessons we learnt last gen should apply to some degree this gen.

For example last gen, plenty of people touted the fact that PS4 is using GCN so that means that on PC, AMD GPUs will be far better for gaming. In reality that's wasn't the case. Then we fast forward to PS5/Series S/X. People claimed that RDNA 2 will perform better because consoles are using them. Yet we are seeing Ampere GPUs either being on par or beating RDNA 2 in Raster (Exception being 6800 vs 3070 Ti) and crushing RDNA 2 in Ray Tracing.

People also claimed that 8 Core FX CPUs will age better because PS4/X1 are using 8 core Jag CPUs. In reality, getting the i5 2500k rolfstomped FX and console CPUs despite having half the cores. Fast forward to current gen, a) 5600/12400 are much faster than the CPUs in consoles b) Consoles themselves don't use 8 cores 16 threads of gaming because they need to reserve cores for OS level functions.

So while 8 cores will age better, I highly doubt you will need anymore than 6 cores 12 threads. Imo the only time you should be getting 8 core 16 thread CPU is if you have a 3070 or higher and playing at 1440p. Anyone below should be getting a 5600 or 12400.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:
Conina said:

Yeah, I wouldn't buy a CPU with less cores and threads than a PS5 / Xbox Series console.

That could backfire in new multiplatform games after the (console) crossgen phase.

That would be like saying you shouldn't buy an i5 2500k because the ps4 had 8 core cpu...

...which ran into severe frame pacing issues late into the PS4/XBO lifetime because it only had 4 threads.

The 2500K was great when it came out, but by 2018, it's lack of threads practically killed the chip, as it resulted in severe microstutter in most newer titles. So for those who wanted to keep their CPU for many years, the 2700 would have been the much better choice.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 19 April 2022

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Captain_Yuri said:

That would be like saying you shouldn't buy an i5 2500k because the ps4 had 8 core cpu...

...which ran into severe frame pacing issues late into the PS4/XBO lifetime because it only had 4 threads.

The 2500K was great when it came out, but by 2018, it's lack of threads practically killed the chip, as it resulted in severe microstutter in most newer titles. So for those who wanted to keep their CPU for many years, the 2600 would have been the much better choice.

Can I get some links cause majority of the games even in 2018, the i5 2500k was fine in. And compared to the consoles, it was still significantly faster.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

As an example during Hardware Unboxed revisit in 2020, the i5 2500k is doing holding up really well against the i7 2600k and FX:



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

...which ran into severe frame pacing issues late into the PS4/XBO lifetime because it only had 4 threads.

The 2500K was great when it came out, but by 2018, it's lack of threads practically killed the chip, as it resulted in severe microstutter in most newer titles. So for those who wanted to keep their CPU for many years, the 2600 would have been the much better choice.

Can I get some links cause majority of the games even in 2018, the i5 2500k was fine in. And compared to the consoles, it was still significantly faster.

How about this one, also from Hardware Unboxed?

It's i5 7600K vs Ryzen 5 1600, but it shows how the 4c/4t became very much the limiting factor in many games even before the PS5/XSX launched. Battlefield V and the Division 2 show this very well, while the average FPS are not far behind the Ryzen 5 1600, the minimum FPS are way behind because having only 4c/4t was a heavy limiter already.

Edit: Most of the games in the video you posted are not very CPU demanding, a fact that is also said throughout the video at almost every game benchmark. However, Shadow of the Tomb Raider is one title that is more demanding, and as a result, it decimates the i5 due to only having 4 threads.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 19 April 2022

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Can I get some links cause majority of the games even in 2018, the i5 2500k was fine in. And compared to the consoles, it was still significantly faster.

How about this one, also from Hardware Unboxed?

It's i5 7600K vs Ryzen 5 1600, but it shows how the 4c/4t became very much the limiting factor in many games even before the PS5/XSX launched. Battlefield V and the Division 2 show this very well, while the average FPS are not far behind the Ryzen 5 1600, the minimum FPS are way behind because having only 4c/4t was a heavy limiter already.

Except that's not showing how the 2500k has aged and how it's so called "lack of threads practically killed the chip" compared to the i7.

That video shows you how exactly they have aged including Shadow of Tomb Raider. Majority of the games, the i5 did quite well but there are some edge cases like Shadow of Tomb Raider where it doesn't do as well. But it's far from getting killed due to a lack of threads considering how well it does in so many games.

Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 19 April 2022

                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Captain_Yuri said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

How about this one, also from Hardware Unboxed?

It's i5 7600K vs Ryzen 5 1600, but it shows how the 4c/4t became very much the limiting factor in many games even before the PS5/XSX launched. Battlefield V and the Division 2 show this very well, while the average FPS are not far behind the Ryzen 5 1600, the minimum FPS are way behind because having only 4c/4t was a heavy limiter already.

Except that's not showing how the 2500k has aged and how it's so called "lack of threads practically killed the chip" compared to the i7.

That video shows you how exactly they have aged including Shadow of Tomb Raider. Majority of the games, the i5 did quite well but there are some edge cases like Shadow of Tomb Raider where it doesn't do as well. But it's far from getting killed due to a lack of threads considering how well it does in so many games.

Like I said, he pointed out that most of those games are lightly threaded, which wasn't true for an increasing amount of games anymore even at the time. They mostly went with games that all 3 could play in that video instead of the ones that were on their usual benchmark list. Had they gone with those games, the outcome would have been very different in the video you posted.

Also keep in mind the video I posted is one year older than yours, predating the PS5/XSX release, and yet it shows some serious issues with 4c/4t CPUs even back then.