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JEMC said:
HoloDust said:

Complete lack of any system is really not in RPG spirit - as someone who played quite a bit of D&D when I was in high school (back in 80s), alignment is really great way to get into character you've created and stick to his/her view of the world and not your own.

That said, it's not bad idea for game not to define what's right or wrong, but some sort of reputation among diferrent sort of people depending on your actions is desirable IMO.

I think that a good or bad system wouldn't work in this game, mostly because no one will be good, only more or less bad/evil. That said, there could be a system of sorts that takes into account the things you do and if they're necessary or not.

In any case, we alredy saw in the gameplay video from last year that the order in which we take the missions and the decisions we make have consequences that will make future missions easier or harder. And that's the ultimate goal of those moral systems.

Well, not really - video game RPGs, especially modern, are pretty bad at translating morality/alignment systems of pen&paper RPGs. Playing in an alignment of the character you've created is actual point, that really dictates (if you're role playing as you should) how you will react to many situations.

As for 2077, I'm not sure is this is good or bad, I never played any p&p version of Cyberpunk, though friend of mine from university talked extensively about it back in days.



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JEMC said:

Final Fantasy 8 Remaster PC Exclusive Features Revealed
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/final-fantasy-8-remaster-pc-exclusive-features-revealed/
At E3 2019, Square Enix revealed that a remaster of the second 3D Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy 8, is under development. This remaster will come with some new features and in an interview with Ryokutya2089, Producer Yoshinori Kitase unveiled these brand new features.
>> The interview is in Japanese so, unless you can read it, don't bother clicking the link.

I am hoping that they will update Final Fantasy 8 HD on Steam, rather than force me to rebuy another copy.

m0ney said:

I am building a new office PC, I should get the parts this Friday, I chose AMD APU Athlon 200GE and micro ATX size, in case I want to put my old 960 in it for Rocket League lol I'm excited, I haven't built a PC since 2014.

Why the 200GE? Let us know how you go with it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

We don't know that for sure, there isn't any evidence to tell us what OS they are using for next-gen... Or for that matter "OS's". (As in plural, aka. Multiples.)

It's almost certainly going to be the same OS so let's not entertain the concern of an entirely new OS for even a second ... 

Next gen console architectures were built in mind to be backwards compatible with old software like the OS ... 

Pemalite said:

What the Playstation 4 has... Has absolutely zero bearing on what the Playstation 5 or the next Xbox will have... As again, we lack any evidence that disproves or substantiates the inclusion of auxiliary ARM cores.

Considering the PS4 Pro also had an auxiliary ARM processor as well (pattern starting to emerge), I wouldn't say that it won't have any bearing as to what the PS5 will feature. Sony is pretty much guaranteed to at least keep the ARM processor or expand upon it for compatibility purposes ... 

As for the new Xbox, that's more up in the air ... 

Pemalite said:

Which makes 4k relevant.

31% is a very relevant piece of the home TV display pie, that is 10's if not 100's of millions of gamers to market towards.

That's 31% of the American households and if we also take Steam hardware survey into account, most high-spec gamers don't care about 4K ... 

More people should be concerned about their uplink speeds rather than what their device is capable of outputting ... 

Pemalite said:

Yeah... That doesn't make AMD's notebook GPU's good by any stretch of the imagination. - Nor is it my problem anyway.

Of course it isn't your problem but it won't matter much anyways since their APUs lag behind their discrete CPU/GPU design cadence ... 

AMD APUs won't be worth pursuing either until DDR5 arrives ... 



fatslob-:O said:

It's almost certainly going to be the same OS so let's not entertain the concern of an entirely new OS for even a second ... 

Next gen console architectures were built in mind to be backwards compatible with old software like the OS ... 


Well no. Backwards compatibility doesn't necessitate the need for the same OS.
Virtualization is a thing, the Xbox One runs multiple Operating Systems such as the Xbox 360 OS on top of the main OS when doing backwards compatibility.


In short, I am not willing to assert something as "fact" when we simply have absolutely zero evidence to substantiate such claims... And neither should anyone else.

fatslob-:O said:

Considering the PS4 Pro also had an auxiliary ARM processor as well (pattern starting to emerge), I wouldn't say that it won't have any bearing as to what the PS5 will feature. Sony is pretty much guaranteed to at least keep the ARM processor or expand upon it for compatibility purposes ... 

Only the consoles that released in the Playstation 4 family had an auxiliary ARM processor.
The Playstation 3 did not, the Xbox did not.

Again... I am not willing to assert something as "fact" when we simply have zero evidence to substantiate such claims... There may be enough CPU capacity this time around across two CPU cores to make such auxiliary chips entirely redundant.

fatslob-:O said:

That's 31% of the American households and if we also take Steam hardware survey into account, most high-spec gamers don't care about 4K

31% of TV's that are 4k capable is not an insignificant number.
Plus many 1080P users see value in a 4k console due to the benefits downsampling brings.

Steam is also the PC which is an entirely different demographic and is thus disingenuous to assume that they are representative of the Console+TV market.

Sony and Microsoft have been relatively successful with their "Enhanced" consoles that are chasing those higher resolutions, that is only going to continue as we enter the next gen. (Which is still over a year away from release mind you... So 4k will only gain more prominence over the next few years naturally anyway.)

fatslob-:O said:

More people should be concerned about their uplink speeds rather than what their device is capable of outputting ... 

Why?

fatslob-:O said:

Of course it isn't your problem but it won't matter much anyways since their APUs lag behind their discrete CPU/GPU design cadence ... 

AMD APUs won't be worth pursuing either until DDR5 arrives ... 

We have no idea if AMD's APU's will be any better than their current efforts relative to whatever else is available on the market at the time.

AMD is keeping it's notebook chips a step behind their desktop efforts... Which isn't doing their mobile efforts any favors.

I mean... Take the Ryzen 2500u/3500u and compare it against the higher tier 2700u/3700u... The 2500u/3500u will often outperform the 2700u/3700u in games thanks to how AMD manages it's TDP for the graphics portion of the chip... Despite having a CU less!



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

JEMC said:

sethnintendo said:
Looks like Steam Summer Sale has finally begun.

And, as per tradition, Steam can't deal with all the traffic.

Yea it was really bad when it first dropped.  I'm having better luck now.  So far my cart is under $25 and I'd like to keep it under 30.  My backlog is embarrassing on steam but not as bad as some that I've seen.  I've made some progress lately.  Just need to focus on quick easy games that I have instead of getting lost in Civ or other never ending games.



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Pemalite said:


Well no. Backwards compatibility doesn't necessitate the need for the same OS.
Virtualization is a thing, the Xbox One runs multiple Operating Systems such as the Xbox 360 OS on top of the main OS when doing backwards compatibility.

In short, I am not willing to assert something as "fact" when we simply have absolutely zero evidence to substantiate such claims... And neither should anyone else.

It makes zero sense for console manufacturers to throw away years of work just to redesign an already competent system for the sake of it ... 

Pemalite said:

Only the consoles that released in the Playstation 4 family had an auxiliary ARM processor.
The Playstation 3 did not, the Xbox did not.

Again... I am not willing to assert something as "fact" when we simply have zero evidence to substantiate such claims... There may be enough CPU capacity this time around across two CPU cores to make such auxiliary chips entirely redundant.

Other systems had auxiliary processors before like the PS2 which pretty much included all of the PS1's hardware so there's still precedent where the successor hardware came with an auxiliary processor ... 

PS5 in all likelihood will come with some ARM cores ... 

Pemalite said:

31% of TV's that are 4k capable is not an insignificant number.

Plus many 1080P users see value in a 4k console due to the benefits downsampling brings.

Steam is also the PC which is an entirely different demographic and is thus disingenuous to assume that they are representative of the Console+TV market.

Sony and Microsoft have been relatively successful with their "Enhanced" consoles that are chasing those higher resolutions, that is only going to continue as we enter the next gen. (Which is still over a year away from release mind you... So 4k will only gain more prominence over the next few years naturally anyway.)

31% in only America ? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty insignificant when we count in the rest of the world ... 

Doing down sampling is arguably a waste power when developers could stand to make a bigger improvement by targeting higher visual quality features like RT ... 

Their enhanced systems still only accounts for the minority of their total hardware platform sales ... 

Pemalite said:

Why?

Considering Google Stadia needs at least 35Mbps on down link to stream games at 4K then you'll need 35Mbps as well on the up link to do some game streaming at 4K in decent quality ...

Seeing as how most US states don't even hit 35Mbps on the up link, people should be more concerned about their fixed broadband speeds becoming a bottleneck before the CPU in their device does ... 

All of this is made irrelevant by the fact that we have hardware accelerated video playback so no extra compute overhead is needed to do 4K streaming regardless ...

Pemalite said:

We have no idea if AMD's APU's will be any better than their current efforts relative to whatever else is available on the market at the time.

AMD is keeping it's notebook chips a step behind their desktop efforts... Which isn't doing their mobile efforts any favors.

I mean... Take the Ryzen 2500u/3500u and compare it against the higher tier 2700u/3700u... The 2500u/3500u will often outperform the 2700u/3700u in games thanks to how AMD manages it's TDP for the graphics portion of the chip... Despite having a CU less!

@bold That's just the nature of chip design. You're always at least going to be 6 months to 1 year behind on incorporating the latest architecture in an APU ... 

As for the last line, that's likely more of a problem with the faulty software than the hardware ...



fatslob-:O said:

It makes zero sense for console manufacturers to throw away years of work just to redesign an already competent system for the sake of it ... 

They tend to do that every console generation...

Hence why it's called a "generation" where there is a break-away in technology.

fatslob-:O said:

Other systems had auxiliary processors before like the PS2 which pretty much included all of the PS1's hardware so there's still precedent where the successor hardware came with an auxiliary processor ... 

And? That wasn't an Auxiliary ARM processor, nor does it mean that the PS2 having the PS1 chips for things like I/O and backwards compatibility mean that the Playstation 5 will have Auxiliary ARM processors.

fatslob-:O said:

PS5 in all likelihood will come with some ARM cores ... 

Certainly not definitively.

fatslob-:O said:

31% in only America ? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty insignificant when we count in the rest of the world ... 

Doing down sampling is arguably a waste power when developers could stand to make a bigger improvement by targeting higher visual quality features like RT ... 

Downsampling is glorious. Don't knock it.

Even cheap chinese brand televisions are rolling out with 4k these days... Most western markets have the majority of Telvisions shipped as 4k panels now.
https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019/05/09/western-europe-leading-4k-tv-adoption/

4k is certainly relevant. 4k is here. 4k adopting is increasing.

Ray Tracing will have hardware dedicated to the cause in Scarlett, so there is no reason why it can't hit higher resolutions with Ray Tracing enabled.

fatslob-:O said:

Considering Google Stadia needs at least 35Mbps on down link to stream games at 4K then you'll need 35Mbps as well on the up link to do some game streaming at 4K in decent quality ...

Seeing as how most US states don't even hit 35Mbps on the up link, people should be more concerned about their fixed broadband speeds becoming a bottleneck before the CPU in their device does ... 

No you don't.
It all depends on that bitrate and the encoding used.
H.265/HEVC can bring it down to 15Mbps easily enough... Get aggressive and I don't see why 10Mbps isn't feasible.

The next gen consoles should have hardware support for that.

Well. The US isn't the world... In city limits I would assume the average broadband speeds are much higher.

fatslob-:O said:

All of this is made irrelevant by the fact that we have hardware accelerated video playback so no extra compute overhead is needed to do 4K streaming regardless ...

Yes and no. The CPU is still tasked with some jobs, even though the encode job can be hardware accelerated.

fatslob-:O said:

@bold That's just the nature of chip design. You're always at least going to be 6 months to 1 year behind on incorporating the latest architecture in an APU ... 

As for the last line, that's likely more of a problem with the faulty software than the hardware ...


That is just the nature of AMD's cadence. - The Ryzen 3700u should have been a 7nm chip based around Zen2, rather than 12nm and Zen+.

And no. That isn't a fault of the software over the hardware, it's been documented thoroughly and is replicated regardless of software set-ups. (I.E. Linux vs Windows, old vs new drivers, different games etc'.)

I do have a Ryzen 2700u device, so I know first hand.

The Ryzen 2500u has less CU's and lower clocks, so when you are gaming it's able to use more of it's TDP budget to increase the GPU clockrate resulting in higher overall performance over the 2700u.

But if you throttle the 2700u's CPU, then the chip is able to sink more of it's TDP headroom into driving the GPU clockrate up resulting in better performance.

AMD just didn't balance it's chips very well. Or bin them appropriately, they should have binned the 2700u a little more aggressively so they can hit higher clocks with lower power consumption.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Why the 200GE? Let us know how you go with it.

Because it suits my needs, it is low power, only 35 TDP. I use my office PC mostly for email and web browsing. The rest of the parts are these:

- Motherboard AM4 Gigabyte GA-A320M-S2H

- RAM Crucial 4GB 2666MHz CL19 DDR4

- SSD Patriot Burst 120GB SATAIII 2.5"

- PSU Chieftec ATX 2.3 GPA 350W GPA-350S8

- Case Natec Apion Black



My Etsy store

My Ebay store

Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

HoloDust said:
JEMC said:

I think that a good or bad system wouldn't work in this game, mostly because no one will be good, only more or less bad/evil. That said, there could be a system of sorts that takes into account the things you do and if they're necessary or not.

In any case, we alredy saw in the gameplay video from last year that the order in which we take the missions and the decisions we make have consequences that will make future missions easier or harder. And that's the ultimate goal of those moral systems.

Well, not really - video game RPGs, especially modern, are pretty bad at translating morality/alignment systems of pen&paper RPGs. Playing in an alignment of the character you've created is actual point, that really dictates (if you're role playing as you should) how you will react to many situations.

As for 2077, I'm not sure is this is good or bad, I never played any p&p version of Cyberpunk, though friend of mine from university talked extensively about it back in days.

I was obviously talking about how those systems are used in videogames. I've never played a pen&paper RPG.

In any case, we'll see what will CDP Red comes up with, and if it works or not.

sethnintendo said:
JEMC said:

And, as per tradition, Steam can't deal with all the traffic.

Yea it was really bad when it first dropped.  I'm having better luck now.  So far my cart is under $25 and I'd like to keep it under 30.  My backlog is embarrassing on steam but not as bad as some that I've seen.  I've made some progress lately.  Just need to focus on quick easy games that I have instead of getting lost in Civ or other never ending games.

I haven't given the sale a proper look, but so far it looks like I might end not buying anything.

Between games that are new and still cost more than I'm willing to spend, and older games like Civ VI or XCOM 2 that I'm not buying because I've learned the lesson and I'm waiting for a GOTY edition, I can't seem to find anything that entices me to buy.

I don't know, maybe I'll get the Definitve Edition of Sleeping Dogs since it's cheap and I truly enjoyed the game. Replaying it with prettier graphics could be tempting.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
HoloDust said:

Well, not really - video game RPGs, especially modern, are pretty bad at translating morality/alignment systems of pen&paper RPGs. Playing in an alignment of the character you've created is actual point, that really dictates (if you're role playing as you should) how you will react to many situations.

As for 2077, I'm not sure is this is good or bad, I never played any p&p version of Cyberpunk, though friend of mine from university talked extensively about it back in days.

I was obviously talking about how those systems are used in videogames. I've never played a pen&paper RPG.

In any case, we'll see what will CDP Red comes up with, and if it works or not.

Yeah, I was aware you're talking about VG RPGs. I just tried to explain what the real purpose behind moral/aligment system is. As with lot of other things, VG RPGs suffer quite a bit when converting P&P RPG mechanisms, and lot of it all boils down to lack of Dungeon Master.

That's why, as much as I love VG RPGs, I'm always painfully aware how much of a simplified experience they are compared to P&P, hence why I hope to live long enough to one day play a proper VG RPG that will pack AI Dungeon Master able to change things on fly and improvise, just like real DM.