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fatslob-:O said:

Could this be it ? Are we returning to the K8 days ? 

Even the lowest end Matisse SKU looks extremely solid and it looks like there's yet some more room left with higher end SKUs, overclocking, and higher memory performance ... 

I can translate the written article text, but not the charts. Are you able to by chance?.



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fatslob-:O said:

Could this be it ? Are we returning to the K8 days ? 

Even the lowest end Matisse SKU looks extremely solid and it looks like there's yet some more room left with higher end SKUs, overclocking, and higher memory performance ... 

Only a 6-core chip though...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Chazore said:

I can translate the written article text, but not the charts. Are you able to by chance?.

All are easy enough to tell ... 

multihilos = multicore

monohilo = single core 

valores en = measured in

puntos = points 

(nano)segundos = (nano)seconds 

mejor a mayor = more is better

mejor a menor = less is better

copia = copy 

escrita = write 

lectura = read

I think we can verify with @JEMC since he's Spanish ...

Pemalite said:

Only a 6-core chip though...

Hence why there's more to come since it's only the lowest of all Matisse SKUs ...

Even if it is only six cores, it's still a pretty good deal at $200 for like ~85% of the performance of a 9900K. I wouldn't be worried about next gen at all since >80% of all Steam users (which are outliers as it is) have less then 6 cores to begin with so developers will have to aim lower for them ... 

Last edited by fatslob-:O - on 24 June 2019

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

Only a 6-core chip though...

Hence why there's more to come since it's only the lowest of all Matisse SKUs ...

Even if it is only six cores, it's still a pretty good deal at $200 for 90% of the performance of a 9900K. I wouldn't be worried about next gen at all since >80% of all Steam users (which are outliers as it is) have less then 6 cores to begin with so developers will have to aim lower for them ... 

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.

Whatever amount will be reserved for next gen consoles, the impact of the OS will be nil regardless ... 

Also, you gotta stop thinking in terms of the # of cores. What matters in the end is performance ... 

If you want more cores then AMD are still going to offer higher end models and I doubt your old Sandy Bridge system is going to give the lowest end Matisse much of a fight ... 



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fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.

Whatever amount will be reserved for next gen consoles, the impact of the OS will be nil regardless ... 

Also, you gotta stop thinking in terms of the # of cores. What matters in the end is performance ... 

If you want more cores then AMD are still going to offer higher end models and I doubt your old Sandy Bridge system is going to give the lowest end Matisse much of a fight ... 

If the OS is reserving 25% of the CPU time, that's a pretty significant impact for the consoles.

Of course performance matters. But single threaded performance+more cores is what I want most, I can use every core I can get for my workloads, if a design has fantastic single threaded performance and scales out to a high number of threads... I am an extremely happy camper.

I am not running Sandy Bridge at the moment, I still do have that system still kicking though!
I am not knocking AMD (I own multiple AMD rigs!) - Just anything less than 8 cores seems to be pretty uninspiring... The fact that a 6-core AMD chip can reach 90% of an Intel 8-core chip is just a testament to how poor Intel is doing right now, they have really dropped the ball on the CPU front.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

If the OS is reserving 25% of the CPU time, that's a pretty significant impact for the consoles.

Of course performance matters. But single threaded performance+more cores is what I want most, I can use every core I can get for my workloads, if a design has fantastic single threaded performance and scales out to a high number of threads... I am an extremely happy camper.

I am not running Sandy Bridge at the moment, I still do have that system still kicking though!
I am not knocking AMD (I own multiple AMD rigs!) - Just anything less than 8 cores seems to be pretty uninspiring... The fact that a 6-core AMD chip can reach 90% of an Intel 8-core chip is just a testament to how poor Intel is doing right now, they have really dropped the ball on the CPU front.

I doubt it'll get anywhere near 25% (closer to 5% realistically speaking) and next gen consoles are guaranteed to have 8 cores with the official information we know so the discussion about consoles are especially moot in general since developers probably won't make next gen console CPU performance as the minimum standard ... 

Just exactly how high do you want to raise the standards for AMD ? Would you rather they not sell ANY 6 cores and instead start with 8 cores at $400 ? 

Even though it's not 8 cores, they're still offering compelling options and that still matters a lot even if it is uninspiring to you. They'll still be offering 8 cores at higher prices ... 



fatslob-:O said:

I doubt it'll get anywhere near 25% (closer to 5% realistically speaking) and next gen consoles are guaranteed to have 8 cores with the official information we know so the discussion about consoles are especially moot in general since developers probably won't make next gen console CPU performance as the minimum standard ... 

How do you come to 5%? 
And yes, 8-cores is common knowledge at the moment.

25% of 8 cores is 2 cores, which is a good amount of CPU time for the OS, background duties and so on, especially as these devices tend to do more and more in the background as time goes on... And with 4k streaming becoming more prominent, they may need the additional CPU cycles.

fatslob-:O said:

Just exactly how high do you want to raise the standards for AMD ? Would you rather they not sell ANY 6 cores and instead start with 8 cores at $400 ? 

You have misconstrued my statements to be something it's not.
I am suggesting that 6-cores is uninspiring to me, not that AMD should stop selling them.

If AMD was to release a 6-core CPU for the mobile space I would actually be a little more excited, but their mobile efforts are pretty average at the moment.

AMD's 12 and 16-core parts however are extremely tantalizing for me... Remember, I have had 6 or more CPU cores for about a decade now, so anything less than 8-cores after all these years is pretty "meh" from my point of view.
AMD had 6-core mainstream parts (I.E. The Phenom 2 x6 1090T) as far back as 2010 remember, which was actually my first 6-core processor, I want things to move upwards a little faster for the entry and mid-range segments, especially on desktop.

fatslob-:O said:

Even though it's not 8 cores, they're still offering compelling options and that still matters a lot even if it is uninspiring to you. They'll still be offering 8 cores at higher prices ... 

I never once suggested they aren't compelling options for other users. - I am not one of those other users however.





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Pemalite said:

How do you come to 5%? 
And yes, 8-cores is common knowledge at the moment.

25% of 8 cores is 2 cores, which is a good amount of CPU time for the OS, background duties and so on, especially as these devices tend to do more and more in the background as time goes on... And with 4k streaming becoming more prominent, they may need the additional CPU cycles.

Current consoles have 7 cores available which means that an OS takes at most 12.5% of total CPU compute capacity. Consoles are most likely going to come with a 3+GHz clock (likely 3.2) and that would translate to roughly 4x faster performance (~3%) and that's not even taking into account that it can potentially go to 0% if Sony or even Microsoft decide to offload to auxiliary ARM cores ... (this does not take into account the superior I/O performance of next generation systems as well)

4K will be pretty irrelevant for next generation as I imagine most devs will choose to design content around RT at 1080p with better AA rather than 4K since most people won't have access to a 4K display at the start of next generation. 4K is maybe something to target during the middle of next generation but even with 4K streaming there's no reason why we couldn't use fixed function dedicated units for that ... 

Pemalite said:

You have misconstrued my statements to be something it's not.
I am suggesting that 6-cores is uninspiring to me, not that AMD should stop selling them.

If AMD was to release a 6-core CPU for the mobile space I would actually be a little more excited, but their mobile efforts are pretty average at the moment.

AMD's 12 and 16-core parts however are extremely tantalizing for me... Remember, I have had 6 or more CPU cores for about a decade now, so anything less than 8-cores after all these years is pretty "meh" from my point of view.
AMD had 6-core mainstream parts (I.E. The Phenom 2 x6 1090T) as far back as 2010 remember, which was actually my first 6-core processor, I want things to move upwards a little faster for the entry and mid-range segments, especially on desktop.

I never once suggested they aren't compelling options for other users. - I am not one of those other users however.

So your point is that you're expressing your opinion even when I made it clear that AMD had other options in mind for you ? So what was this argument even about ?! 

As far as the portable space is concerned, I don't think AMD cares about it all that much so they're probably going to leave it to brand power to do all the impressing and I wouldn't think about doing parts with more cores until well AFTER the launch of next generation since a few high-end application developers are still struggling to scale more than beyond 4 cores ... (particularly MMOs, Far Cry, Civilization, and other guilty developers)



fatslob-:O said:

Current consoles have 7 cores available which means that an OS takes at most 12.5% of total CPU compute capacity. Consoles are most likely going to come with a 3+GHz clock (likely 3.2) and that would translate to roughly 4x faster performance (~3%) and that's not even taking into account that it can potentially go to 0% if Sony or even Microsoft decide to offload to auxiliary ARM cores ... (this does not take into account the superior I/O performance of next generation systems as well)

The 8th gen consoles launched with 2x CPU cores reserved for the OS and background. - In the history of Consoles, the OS/Background tasks have gotten more demanding with each successive console generation.
Obviously as console generations progress there is some underlying optimizations done to the software stack, this holds true since consoles have had mandatory software updates. (7th gen and newer.)

Assuming Microsoft/Sony has auxiliary ARM cores to offload tasks is far-fetched when we have zero supportive evidence of whether that is the case.

fatslob-:O said:

4K will be pretty irrelevant for next generation as I imagine most devs will choose to design content around RT at 1080p with better AA rather than 4K since most people won't have access to a 4K display at the start of next generation. 4K is maybe something to target during the middle of next generation but even with 4K streaming there's no reason why we couldn't use fixed function dedicated units for that ... 

4k is relevant now.
There are multiple consoles that have been chasing that market for a few years now.


fatslob-:O said:

So your point is that you're expressing your opinion even when I made it clear that AMD had other options in mind for you ? So what was this argument even about ?! 

I just made the statement that the 6-core parts are pretty uninspiring.

fatslob-:O said:

As far as the portable space is concerned, I don't think AMD cares about it all that much so they're probably going to leave it to brand power to do all the impressing and I wouldn't think about doing parts with more cores until well AFTER the launch of next generation since a few high-end application developers are still struggling to scale more than beyond 4 cores ... (particularly MMOs, Far Cry, Civilization, and other guilty developers)

AMD's Notebook APU's are on an older process, AMD's notebook power management is generally shit.
And to make matters worse... AMD hamstrung their notebook graphics with DDR4 2400mhz DRAM.

They had the potential to make a fantastic all-round package that could best Intel+nVidia low-end GPU combo.

Their notebook offerings could be better, they just aren't putting the effort into it for whatever reason... They are certainly in a better position than with their FX notebook chips, but still far from ideal.



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