That is fucking EA for you... Nothing existed before EA came to console market...

Can I play BF4 on the PS4 with a m+kb?

I wasn't one of those people as I had a original Sixaxis pad which I replaced with a DS3 as soon as they released it.  The sixaxis functionality was tagged on, ruined some of the immersion of games and was frankly crap in everything I tried it on.

Time will tell if anyone finds a use for the touch pad, personally I don't see it being used for anything worthwhile.  Your RTS suggestion might work if it was ergonomically suitable for you to game like that for any period of time but to me it look very uncomfortable to use for long periods as unlike a laptop you have no flat area to comfortably rest your wrist.  They would have been better releasing a supplimentary controller if that was their goal.

I assure you that it is not a silly argument saying the symmetriical sticks is uncomfortable to use, that's the nature of designing a pad so your hands are pointed together for a long period bending your wrists.  On the 360 pad my wrist doesn't bend inwards hence I do not get discomfort on the outside of my wrists.  No doubt you have none of these issues so good for you.

sorry i must have genetically modified hands as the natural way my hands are when relaxed matches the analouge sticks on the ps3, i dont however get how moving my left thumb 1 inch up to the left increases comfort and stops my wrists from twisting, that to me sounds like garbage, if there was a major problem with the posistion of the analouge sticks on the ps controller they would have been addressed 15 years ago.

playing RTS games why would i need to rest my wrist anywhere, the controller can be held with my left hand while using my right hand which does not need to hold the controller (you dont hold a laptop like a game pad while playing games on it, the DS4 is a fair bit smaller and a lot lighter than a laptop lol), most of the gaming will be done sitting on a sofa which no doubt will have arms on it so there are plently of surfaces to wrest your arm/wrist.

Maybe because you hold your pad differently due to the fact you do not have my hands.  Perhaps you should try actually looking at a 360 pad (it's clear you don't own one) then you could see for yourself how it's natural to grip the two pads differently. 

Say what you like, there is plenty of evidence out there that the pad isn't perfect for everyone (and why should it be).  Stick your head in the sand for all I care.

But this is what myself and RetroGamerLeet are wondering, hand/palm placement has nothing to do with where your thumb sits. 360 might be better for palm placement but why is it that your thumbs can't be aligned? Your right thumb is the same on both PS3 and 360 controller, down from the buttons, yet on the left, if you were to place it down to match the right thumb suddenly that's a problem? I'm more wondering now what is wrong with 360 owners left hands...

The 360 is comfortable because it's your palms that are happy not the placement of thumbs.

It is the way you hold the pad that aligns with your thumb.    On the DS3 I find in order to reach the buttons and everything in reach I tend to have my elbows further out and my arms pointing "in" causing my wrists to bend in towards my body.  On the 360 pad I tend to have my elbows closer together  and my palms almost face upwards in use as opposed to slightly downward wit the DS3.  This means my wrists are straighter and I can game for hours with comfort.

It is the thumbs positioning that causes me to have this biased grip, on the 360 it is negated somewhat by the fact that I rarely use the dpad.  I would add that I find the dpad very uncomfortable to use on the 360 in much the same manner as I have to alter my grip in a similar way.  It is so bad I did build a custom pad (using one of the original Xbox SF controllers) for fighters on the 360 that has no analogue sticks and a awesome dpad rather than the dog turd one on the 360 pad.

I can still game on a DS3 but I tend to play in shorter spans and often I'll play while lying on my front as it feels more comfortable than sat up or laid back.

They didn't have military/tactical shooters before then, so they don't count. :p

PS gamers have no reason to complain now, the triggers are on the PS4 controler with better grips and weightiness. Unlike the 360 gamers who have been conditioned for one style of play with triggers, we've been conditioned for the bumpers, but can now evolve to the triggers so now based on conditioning theres choice (even though the 360 has bumpers as well, but in truth who would shoot with those bumpers? I went back and forward between the 360 and PS3 this gen in shooters and the 360 had the edge because of the triggers and weight of the controller. This was all I needed to further solidify a PS4 purchase. That and I play fighting games, and the directional pad is better being up on the upper left hand corner.rather than the lower left hand corner like the 360. I can now also play Gran Turismo with triggers.......salivates.

The PS4 controller looks like a modified Logitech PS3 controller. which is fine by me I prefer that controller over the original PS3 controller(I've destroyed many).http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=NJNSfcWgpPkGtM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/ps3-3rd-party-controller-impressions.187467848/&docid=hoN7hHcW82h4eM&imgurl=http://www.gearcrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/logitech-controller1.jpg&w=570&h=333&ei=MFzMUZWpC4nB4AOlx4Ew&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,i:90&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=158&tbnw=269&start=0&ndsp=22&tx=92&ty=76