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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Microsoft lost another war against Sony after HD DVD fiasco

secpierre34 on 19 June 2013
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???



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fillet on 19 June 2013
freedomland said:
fillet said:
freedomland said:
AndrewWK said:
The answer is NO we can´t trust Microsoft but neither can we trust Sony.

Both companies would gladly fuck us in the ass and not even pay for dinner. Those are huge corporations and not our friends and the only reason that Sony is changing their course so drasticly is to stay competitive. Do you really think Sony hasn´t discussed the very sam policies until Microsoft has suffered such a huge backlash. Don´t be naive kids


Some companies gain consumer trust and some not because of their actions.


Oh you mean things like Rootkits are fair game?

Breaking the red book audio CD standard and still labelling them as such?

The creation of SecuROM?

The creation of countless pointless formats to compete with established open standard ones in a cheap shot at making money on proprietory sublicensed technology?

(MemoryStick/Duo/Pro-Duo/Betamax/ATRAC)

There's nothing wrong with any of that, if it brings in the money. But it's certainly not righteous.

(in fact the rootkit bit is actually "wrong" but then so what, shit happens...but I'm not arguing anyone's corner like yourself sir).

I' am not taking sides, it's a discussion to share the ideas.


Please share them then :)

There's been plenty of times in history where a company has changed it's policy or direction in response to consumer reactions. I'd hazzard a guess that those kinds of things happen in large companies on the micromanagment level on a daily basis.

When I was 15 in "Buisness Studies" this kind of thing was called "Market Research".

You suss out the audience, what they want, what they don't want and adapt from there. Obviously it's ALL about making $$$$$, but that isn't a bad thing like you seem to be implying.

Please do lay out your argument specifically what MS has done wrong though in your opinion.



secpierre34 on 19 June 2013
fillet said:
freedomland said:
CDiablo said:
freedomland said:

Nobody demanded Linux, Nobody missed Linux and Sony didn't create Hype about it but policies are another thing, you are saying something else and doing something else mean while stabing in the back of fanbase.

Removal of Linux (+ the Geohot suing issue)is why I stopped buying all Sony Products. I missed out on some great games cause Sony screwed me over but I am ok sticking to my guns. I wasnt getting a Xbone up until 6ish hours ago but am likely to get one now because they listened to what the consumer wants.

You are forgiving Microsoft after all this but you are still ranting about Linux.


You're missing the point here.

Linux was a feature that was included as standard with a PS3, it was later removed and that feature taken away from a product that had already been paid for. People went over this a couple of years ago when it happenend. The fact of if people even used it is not relevant, the important issue is it was removed without consent to allow the PS3 to function as it was intended to and continue playing games online and play games that used a firmware higher than the version that removed the Linux feature.

But as I said....we've been there.

 

The DRM on the Xbox One is different, Microsoft have been open, if rather vague that it was going to feature some horrible DRM - BEFORE a potential buyer purchased it.

 

That is a massive distinction and I'm surprised you are arguing that as a postiive for Sony and a negative for Microsoft.

 

Let's not get off topic though, you think this is some kind of terrible thing so please explain exactly why it's so awful that Microsoft has changed a policy that wasn't popular with potential customers in an effort to not put them off buying a product and making more money? The way you talk it sounds like it's an unethical sin for a company to make a buisness decision?

you do realize that sony did not pay for the linux os right. You had to install it yourself. Sony supported it  but you did not get it when you got a ps3. Did you get a ps3??? I did and I am telling you it is not in there. You get it yourself. they only support it



fillet on 19 June 2013
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


Not relevant. It was known to be there by a significant number of buyers and those buyers may or may not have factored Linux into their purchasing decision. It's not for you or me to make suppositions on that fact - it's not measurable.

What can't be argued with is that it was there upon purchase but was later removed without consent.

That is what is wrong.

Not that it "can't be used anymore". It's why there was such a commotion, the consumer rights aspect. Not the "Oh but nobody used it anyway aspect".

By removing such a feature it sets a president for such actions in other areas of business and consumer rights violations.

It was a massive deal purely on that.



secpierre34 on 19 June 2013
fillet said:
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


Not relevant. It was known to be there by a significant number of buyers and those buyers may or may not have factored Linux into their purchasing decision. It's not for you or me to make suppositions on that fact - it's not measurable.

What can't be argued with is that it was there upon purchase but was later removed without consent.

That is what is wrong.

Not that it "can't be used anymore". It's why there was such a commotion, the consumer rights aspect. Not the "Oh but nobody used it anyway aspect".

By removing such a feature it sets a president for such actions in other areas of business and consumer rights violations.

It was a massive deal purely on that.


You didn't pay for linux when you bought the ps3. you had to get it yourself. The only thing the system did was supporting. In layman's term ps3 cost does not include linux.



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fillet on 19 June 2013
secpierre34 said:
fillet said:
freedomland said:
CDiablo said:
freedomland said:

Nobody demanded Linux, Nobody missed Linux and Sony didn't create Hype about it but policies are another thing, you are saying something else and doing something else mean while stabing in the back of fanbase.

Removal of Linux (+ the Geohot suing issue)is why I stopped buying all Sony Products. I missed out on some great games cause Sony screwed me over but I am ok sticking to my guns. I wasnt getting a Xbone up until 6ish hours ago but am likely to get one now because they listened to what the consumer wants.

You are forgiving Microsoft after all this but you are still ranting about Linux.


You're missing the point here.

Linux was a feature that was included as standard with a PS3, it was later removed and that feature taken away from a product that had already been paid for. People went over this a couple of years ago when it happenend. The fact of if people even used it is not relevant, the important issue is it was removed without consent to allow the PS3 to function as it was intended to and continue playing games online and play games that used a firmware higher than the version that removed the Linux feature.

But as I said....we've been there.

 

The DRM on the Xbox One is different, Microsoft have been open, if rather vague that it was going to feature some horrible DRM - BEFORE a potential buyer purchased it.

 

That is a massive distinction and I'm surprised you are arguing that as a postiive for Sony and a negative for Microsoft.

 

Let's not get off topic though, you think this is some kind of terrible thing so please explain exactly why it's so awful that Microsoft has changed a policy that wasn't popular with potential customers in an effort to not put them off buying a product and making more money? The way you talk it sounds like it's an unethical sin for a company to make a buisness decision?

you do realize that sony did not pay for the linux os right. You had to install it yourself. Sony supported it  but you did not get it when you got a ps3. Did you get a ps3??? I did and I am telling you it is not in there. You get it yourself. they only support it


Of course, I battled like a keyboard warrior (oops seems to be returning somewhat) back when it was removed.

When you boil it down "X feature was removed without consent of purchaser"

That is enough for me to be extremely angry.

X can be anything that was available as a deliberate feature on purchase.

 

But back on topic, this is completely different with the Xbox One and I don't really know why we are discussing the Linux thing except to explain to the OP that the two aren't even related.



ratchet426 on 19 June 2013
fillet said:


HD DVD was much more open and superior format to Bluray in terms of actual technology. If you know what BD-Java is you'll understnad.

HD DVD died because it didn't have enough encryption and anti-consumer technology for the movie studios.


You are confusing "anti-piracy measures" with "anti-consumer technology". The two are not synonymous. In the case of the anti-piracy measures in Bluray, consumers who purchase a Bluray disc can lend it to friends without restriction, or sell it without paying the movie studio a resale tax. Neither was true with the XBox One's DRM policies which was the very definition of anti-consumer.



Azerth on 19 June 2013
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


obvisouly it was being used by alot of people since sony got hacked shortly after 



BuckStud on 19 June 2013
freedomland said:

I' am not judging and not sure what will be the future implications of reversing online policies of X1 but one thing is sure that Microsoft is a company you can not rely on. It seems Microsoft lost another war against Sony after HD DVD fiasco because they don't listen to their fanbase.

First they disappointed the Xbox fans with their new policies but some of them started believing them and started to like their policies and now they are betraying them as well and thats how they treat their fanbase, here i will not go in details,  you already know what i' am talking about.

The big question is this, CAN YOU TRUST THEM?


HD DVD fiasco?!?  You mean how Sony paid movie studios to back Blu-ray instead of HD DVD?  The last big studio that fell was Warner Bros. who Sony compensated nicely for dropping HD DVD support.  I'm not sure how this was a Microsoft fiasco other than they were partnered with Toshiba on the HD DVD standard.



Stop hating and start playing.

secpierre34 on 19 June 2013
Azerth said:
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


obvisouly it was being used by alot of people since sony got hacked shortly after 

really a lot of people hacked the ps3 I guess, i see your logic there. The ps3 was hacked because sony had made a statement 2 months prior that their machine could not be jailbroken. i guess somebody wanted to prove them wrong.