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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Microsoft lost another war against Sony after HD DVD fiasco

secpierre34 said:
fillet said:
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


Not relevant. It was known to be there by a significant number of buyers and those buyers may or may not have factored Linux into their purchasing decision. It's not for you or me to make suppositions on that fact - it's not measurable.

What can't be argued with is that it was there upon purchase but was later removed without consent.

That is what is wrong.

Not that it "can't be used anymore". It's why there was such a commotion, the consumer rights aspect. Not the "Oh but nobody used it anyway aspect".

By removing such a feature it sets a president for such actions in other areas of business and consumer rights violations.

It was a massive deal purely on that.


You didn't pay for linux when you bought the ps3. you had to get it yourself. The only thing the system did was supporting. In layman's term ps3 cost does not include linux.


Doesn't work like that, Linux is free and always will be.

The PS3 had a feature of the ability to install linux. That feature was removed. Therefore I am not happy.

I'm not sure why anyone would defend such an action of any company. I would be biting like a dog whatever company took such action. Consumer rights are important to me. If I pay for something and later on an option of any kind is taken away from me that was designed to be there at time of purchase I will be angrey and so would most people who didn't have a loyality towards said company.

I was very cheesed off when Cinavia was added to my Bluray player so I could no longer make backups and play certain disks too.

I don't like things changing once contract at point of sale or any contract has been made. If you think about this kind of thing a bit deeper instead of just "nobody used it anyway", it leads on to violation of consumer rights, unhealthy president favouring business and nothing good in return to consumer except your rights being eroded gradually over the years.



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Wright said:

> Freedomland as a nick.

> A Sony-related avatar.

> PS4 signature.

> Downplay something Microsoft related.

 

Well, hum, I guess I have to put in doubt your credibility.

this must be christmas for you. since the 24 online check was a deal breaker. now you just need to prostitute yourself and raise 500 bucks and you can play dead rising! 



fillet said:
freedomland said:
fillet said:
freedomland said:
mii-gamer said:
They listen to the community and reversed a policy which was a mistake in the first place and you are attacking them. People find the smallest and the stupidest things just to attack a company. No wonder the xbox fanbase is dwindling here

Don't get emotional, and remember that they didn't listen to community, they are afraid that if they don't change their policy, they will lose sales.


They did listen to the community, they changed their policy because they were concerened it would have a negative impact on launch and sales going forward, what on earth is wrong with that?

These are buisnesses, it is you who is emotional and seeing them as "people" with personalities etc. They go with whatever makes more cash and there is nothing wrong with that - at all!

Are you saying there is?


First read my topic post carefully, i mean they are hurting their own fanbase with these back and forth policies.


How are they hurting their own fanbase, I think you'll find they are reacting to their fanbase.

Something that should be admired considering the size of Microsoft as a company, that's pretty darn rare.

Really now, I and I'm sure others reading your musings would like to know exactly what is so wrong with going back on a midjudged anti-consumer policy? MS has taken a lot of flack for their stance by people who are typically pro Microsoft, including myself.

But you have to have some kind of personal issue with a company to still express their feelings like you are after such a positive u-turn.

Ok, i explain it to you in simple words, first they created fanbase of disc based gaming and then they left them and went digital, some people started to like it and then they left these some people wondering and went back, it seems they are playing some game.



bananaking21 said:

this must be christmas for you. since the 24 online check was a deal breaker. now you just need to prostitute yourself and raise 500 bucks and you can play dead rising! 


It is, though, I don't see how I'm gonna raise that much!



Wright said:
bananaking21 said:

this must be christmas for you. since the 24 online check was a deal breaker. now you just need to prostitute yourself and raise 500 bucks and you can play dead rising! 


It is, though, I don't see how I'm gonna raise that much!


look at the bolded part!! geez... i explained it to you right there! your arent as ugly as deyon so its just a few months of work and you are set!



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fillet said:
freedomland said:
CDiablo said:
freedomland said:

Nobody demanded Linux, Nobody missed Linux and Sony didn't create Hype about it but policies are another thing, you are saying something else and doing something else mean while stabing in the back of fanbase.

Removal of Linux (+ the Geohot suing issue)is why I stopped buying all Sony Products. I missed out on some great games cause Sony screwed me over but I am ok sticking to my guns. I wasnt getting a Xbone up until 6ish hours ago but am likely to get one now because they listened to what the consumer wants.

You are forgiving Microsoft after all this but you are still ranting about Linux.


You're missing the point here.

Linux was a feature that was included as standard with a PS3, it was later removed and that feature taken away from a product that had already been paid for. People went over this a couple of years ago when it happenend. The fact of if people even used it is not relevant, the important issue is it was removed without consent to allow the PS3 to function as it was intended to and continue playing games online and play games that used a firmware higher than the version that removed the Linux feature.

But as I said....we've been there.

 

The DRM on the Xbox One is different, Microsoft have been open, if rather vague that it was going to feature some horrible DRM - BEFORE a potential buyer purchased it.

 

That is a massive distinction and I'm surprised you are arguing that as a postiive for Sony and a negative for Microsoft.

 

Let's not get off topic though, you think this is some kind of terrible thing so please explain exactly why it's so awful that Microsoft has changed a policy that wasn't popular with potential customers in an effort to not put them off buying a product and making more money? The way you talk it sounds like it's an unethical sin for a company to make a buisness decision?

I think you are off topic. I am very please with microsoft new policy in regards to DRM. They made the right move. I am not saying that sony did a positive thing or bad thing. I think that both actions are very very different. I mean ridiculously so. And in sony's case, they stopped providing support for a service they had offered without you paying for it. Last time I checked Microsoft and a plethora of company do the same. I dont remember criticizing microsoft in none of my comments you might want to read before you plead.

Anyhow sony did not do anything wrong with linux, and microsfot did great with today's announcement.



ratchet426 said:
fillet said:


HD DVD was much more open and superior format to Bluray in terms of actual technology. If you know what BD-Java is you'll understnad.

HD DVD died because it didn't have enough encryption and anti-consumer technology for the movie studios.


You are confusing "anti-piracy measures" with "anti-consumer technology". The two are not synonymous. In the case of the anti-piracy measures in Bluray, consumers who purchase a Bluray disc can lend it to friends without restriction, or sell it without paying the movie studio a resale tax. Neither was true with the XBox One's DRM policies which was the very definition of anti-consumer.


You're mixing 2 arguments together to prove me wrong on something I wasn't even saying.

The context of my post was within the comparison of Bluray/HD DVD. Xbox One wasn't even part of my mindset when making that post. To give context the OP was saying that Xbox One is another fiasco like HD DVD with regards to a backtracking on the DRM on Xbox One. When in fact the 2 issues aren't even related as HD DVD had no "backtracking", was a good format that was technically superior to bluray and less anti-consumer.

I don't care how strong and ridiculous the DRM was or is on the Xbox One, I have no loyality. I think it's a disgusting DRM policy to begin with and I applaud any company for listening to it's fanbase and changing it.

I hate Microsoft, I hate Sony and I hate Nintendo, I hate everyone, if you understand that and you see that I'm arguing purely from a consumer point of view, you won't misinterpret my posts as saying something they are not :)



fillet said:
secpierre34 said:
fillet said:
secpierre34 said:
Azerth said:
just like how sony allowed Linux but then took it away?


because you were using linux. They took it away because nobody wanted it. That makes sense. Who bought a ps3 for linux???


Not relevant. It was known to be there by a significant number of buyers and those buyers may or may not have factored Linux into their purchasing decision. It's not for you or me to make suppositions on that fact - it's not measurable.

What can't be argued with is that it was there upon purchase but was later removed without consent.

That is what is wrong.

Not that it "can't be used anymore". It's why there was such a commotion, the consumer rights aspect. Not the "Oh but nobody used it anyway aspect".

By removing such a feature it sets a president for such actions in other areas of business and consumer rights violations.

It was a massive deal purely on that.


You didn't pay for linux when you bought the ps3. you had to get it yourself. The only thing the system did was supporting. In layman's term ps3 cost does not include linux.


Doesn't work like that, Linux is free and always will be.

The PS3 had a feature of the ability to install linux. That feature was removed. Therefore I am not happy.

I'm not sure why anyone would defend such an action of any company. I would be biting like a dog whatever company took such action. Consumer rights are important to me. If I pay for something and later on an option of any kind is taken away from me that was designed to be there at time of purchase I will be angrey and so would most people who didn't have a loyality towards said company.

I was very cheesed off when Cinavia was added to my Bluray player so I could no longer make backups and play certain disks too.

I don't like things changing once contract at point of sale or any contract has been made. If you think about this kind of thing a bit deeper instead of just "nobody used it anyway", it leads on to violation of consumer rights, unhealthy president favouring business and nothing good in return to consumer except your rights being eroded gradually over the years.

You feel entitled to stuff. Man you should read the fine prints of agreements where they state that the service provider reserves the right change the parametrics of their product. If it was illegal somebody smarter than both you and I would have made a fortune. You buy a computer and it gets a virus, do you go to microsoft and say what happened give me my money back? If you do take me with you.

Yet again I love microsoft decisison today. I just believe that sony's Linux "problem", which I've encountered today for the first time was not bad. I believe that consumers are smart and aware of where their money went. If it had been problematic people would have colluded like they did against DRM.



freedomland said:
fillet said:
freedomland said:
fillet said:
freedomland said:
mii-gamer said:
They listen to the community and reversed a policy which was a mistake in the first place and you are attacking them. People find the smallest and the stupidest things just to attack a company. No wonder the xbox fanbase is dwindling here

Don't get emotional, and remember that they didn't listen to community, they are afraid that if they don't change their policy, they will lose sales.


They did listen to the community, they changed their policy because they were concerened it would have a negative impact on launch and sales going forward, what on earth is wrong with that?

These are buisnesses, it is you who is emotional and seeing them as "people" with personalities etc. They go with whatever makes more cash and there is nothing wrong with that - at all!

Are you saying there is?


First read my topic post carefully, i mean they are hurting their own fanbase with these back and forth policies.


How are they hurting their own fanbase, I think you'll find they are reacting to their fanbase.

Something that should be admired considering the size of Microsoft as a company, that's pretty darn rare.

Really now, I and I'm sure others reading your musings would like to know exactly what is so wrong with going back on a midjudged anti-consumer policy? MS has taken a lot of flack for their stance by people who are typically pro Microsoft, including myself.

But you have to have some kind of personal issue with a company to still express their feelings like you are after such a positive u-turn.

Ok, i explain it to you in simple words, first they created fanbase of disc based gaming and then they left them and went digital, some people started to like it and then they left these some people wondering and went back, it seems they are playing some game.


Yup, that's definitely up there with genocide and mass murder.

You made a thread to raise that issue!?

Dear god!

 

EDIT - to reply though, it does seem like they are playing some game.

Making money and staying relevant, how terrible.



Can you trust Sony, who have a vested interest on keeping media on BluRay, and will trump up any kind of move to cloud based media as bad, even if it's on their competitor's platform?