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Forums - Movies & TV - Who is going to see Man of Steel 2marrow?- No one is hyped for Superman? Ride the Word of mouth wave to a billion in sales ( prediction)

 

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JWeinCom said:
Chris Hu said:

Will watch it eventually but just going by the trailers it looks miles better then Superman Returns which really wasn't that good I don't know why most critics liked that movie.


Superman Returns was better... which is a little sad because Returns was not very good.  But, for all its faults, the people working on Returns understood that they were in fact making a Superman movie.


It's just being as close to a realistic version of Superman as actually possible.

They basically just put Superman in our world in real life, except he's still in a fictional movie LOL.

I'm personally glad they did a realistic version of someone like superman growing up on earth.

 

Besides, Superman movies are NOT suppose to be about Lex Luthor, they are suppose to be about Superman and his back story.

We don't need Joker & Lex Luthor in Batman & Superman movies, but we do need them in Shows and Comic Books.

 

But I'm curious what it is that makes you like the other Superman movies more then this?

Since we all have different opinions, I like to hear yours to understand.



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Kaizar said:
JWeinCom said:
Chris Hu said:

Will watch it eventually but just going by the trailers it looks miles better then Superman Returns which really wasn't that good I don't know why most critics liked that movie.


Superman Returns was better... which is a little sad because Returns was not very good.  But, for all its faults, the people working on Returns understood that they were in fact making a Superman movie.


It's just being as close to a realistic version of Superman as actually possible.

They basically just put Superman in our world in real life, except he's still in a fictional movie LOL.

I'm personally glad they did a realistic version of someone like superman growing up on earth.

 

Besides, Superman movies are NOT suppose to be about Lex Luthor, they are suppose to be about Superman and his back story.

We don't need Joker & Lex Luthor in Batman & Superman movies, but we do need them in Shows and Comic Books.

 

But I'm curious what it is that makes you like the other Superman movies more then this?

Since we all have different opinions, I like to hear yours to understand.

The idea of Superman struggling to adjust to Earth is a silly idea that, to the best of my knowledge, isn't really addressed in the comics.  The thing about Superman is that... he's freaking Superman.  He's not a grounded or down to Earth hero like Batman or Spider-man.  He's above it all.  He doesn't need to feel angst about fitting in with the humans, beccause he's Superman.  There is no need to feel insecure when you're superior in pretty much every way.  I don't think this is a realistic version of someone like Superman growing up.  Realistic would be a guy who's positively oozing with confidence and probably has a kind of pompous air about him.  If anything, Superman would be a bit more like Thor was in Thor and Avengers.  Not every hero has to be an angsty loner. *Spoilers from here on out.*

The idea of making Superman struggle to deal with his powers is an attempt to deal with the problem of Superman.  As in, how do you make a nearly invulnrable super hero interesting.  So they kind of manufactured a weakness, but this isn't necessary.

Superman DOES have a "weakness" that people seem to overlook (no not magic).  With great power comes great responsibility.  It's a Spider-man line, but it still applies here.  Superman's power is infinitely greater than Spiderman's, so his responsibility is also infinitely greater.  It's not enough for Superman to beat the villan and save the day.  He needs to beat the villain, save the day, and make sure that every damn person in Metropolis is spared.

And as powerful and fast as he is, Superman can't be in two places at once.  He can't save every single person.  Of course, there is always collateral damage, but because of his overwhelming power and the responsibility, Superman takes this harder than other heroes. This burden is the weakness I'm talking about.  Spider-man will obviously feel bad if bystanders are killed, and while he'll wonder if he could have saved them, eventually he'll accept that he is only human and be able to move on and vow to do better.  Superman can't really do that, because he is not only human.  What's good enough for another hero is not good enough for him.

That's one of the things they got right about returns.  Yeah, there was a lot of silliness and stupid elements, but a lot of the movie centered around Superman stuggling to save every single person from disaster after disaster.  And that brings me to the problem with Man of Steel.  Superman doesn't really seem to give a shit.

Throughout his big battle with Zod and the other Kryptonians, Superman acts with reckless abandon.  He just smashes them all over, making no real effort to minimize collateral damage.  Superman doesn't make a particularly strong attempt to get the dangerous psycopaths who are after him AWAY from the city filled with people.  He punches people through buildings, blows up cars upon cars, and hurls bodies around with little care of where they came from.

If we take Superman's character from the comics, how do you think he would feel as he stands in a city that has been almost completely obliterated by people who would have never come to Earth if not for him?  Would he feel like he failed?  Would he feel responsible?  Would he feel guilty?  Would he be distraught?  For Superman letting one civilian die would be a tragedy.  The thousands who died in the movie would be considered a total failure on his part. How does Man of Steel Superman react to this tragedy?  He makes out with Lois in the rubble and makes a lame joke without giving a thought to the carnage.

This isn't Superman.  If Nolan wants to write a script for an uber powerful outsider, he could do that.  If Snyder wants to make disaster porn, he could do wthat.  But, don't strap a character that doesn't fit to that.  It's like making God of War IV: Starring Kirby.

That is my main problem with the movie, but there are plenty of others... For example...

1.  Did Pa Kent really tell Clark to let a bus of kids die?  For fuck's sake, really?  I get that keeping the secret identiy is important but that's just heartless.  This is the man trying to teach Superman humanity?

2.  Why was Lois on the spaceship besides for plot purposes?  The kryptonians were able to get all the info they needed from Superman's mind anyway.

3.  After leaving the space ship, Supes lands right by his house.  Then promptly leaves.  Uhhhh... So Superman, think the Kryptonians might have seen you land there and may come to the farm where your mom is?  For a guy with a super brain, not so smart.

4. If a guy is firing lasers out of his eyes in a crowded room, twisting his head in a circle is probably the worst thing you could do.

5.  Zod wants to terraform the Earth to make it more like Krypton?  Wait, didn't Jorrel explain how much more nourishing Earth's atmosphere was?

6.  Zod needs to destroy all of humanity rather than try to adjust to Earth's atmosphere.  By the end of the movie he is fighting without a breather on equal terms with the Earth raised Superman.  So, seems like he adjusted without even commiting genocide.  It took about 2 hours.

7.  By the way, isn't Superman's power, and therefore his discomfort, a result of the yellow sun anyway?  Is this terraforming really necessary or useful?

8.  Lois just comes off as a bitch.  Just saying.

9.  Wait... so all of the Kryptonians who were cut off from Krypton died?  Are you kidding me?  Any Kryptonian in a yellow son system should have not only survived but freaking thrived.  And if all the Kryptonians on other worlds struggled so much why does Clark seem to be doing fine?  How is the galaxy not ruled by Kryptonians by now.

10.  Ok... so Superman shoots down a satelite so that they can't find out where he "hangs his cape".  Two seconds later, he casually mentions he's from Kansas.  Thanks for narrowing it down to one sparsely populated state.  If Lois can narrow down his identity in about a week with nothing but google and a smart phone, I think the US army will figure you out clark.



JWeinCom said:
Kaizar said:

But I'm curious what it is that makes you like the other Superman movies more then this?

Since we all have different opinions, I like to hear yours to understand.

The idea of Superman struggling to adjust to Earth is a silly idea that, to the best of my knowledge, isn't really addressed in the comics.  The thing about Superman is that... he's freaking Superman.  He's not a grounded or down to Earth hero like Batman or Spider-man.  He's above it all.  He doesn't need to feel angst about fitting in with the humans, beccause he's Superman.  There is no need to feel insecure when you're superior in pretty much every way.  I don't think this is a realistic version of someone like Superman growing up.  Realistic would be a guy who's positively oozing with confidence and probably has a kind of pompous air about him.  If anything, Superman would be a bit more like Thor was in Thor and Avengers.  Not every hero has to be an angsty loner. *Spoilers from here on out.*

The idea of making Superman struggle to deal with his powers is an attempt to deal with the problem of Superman.  As in, how do you make a nearly invulnrable super hero interesting.  So they kind of manufactured a weakness, but this isn't necessary.

Superman DOES have a "weakness" that people seem to overlook (no not magic).  With great power comes great responsibility.  It's a Spider-man line, but it still applies here.  Superman's power is infinitely greater than Spiderman's, so his responsibility is also infinitely greater.  It's not enough for Superman to beat the villan and save the day.  He needs to beat the villain, save the day, and make sure that every damn person in Metropolis is spared.

And as powerful and fast as he is, Superman can't be in two places at once.  He can't save every single person.  Of course, there is always collateral damage, but because of his overwhelming power and the responsibility, Superman takes this harder than other heroes. This burden is the weakness I'm talking about.  Spider-man will obviously feel bad if bystanders are killed, and while he'll wonder if he could have saved them, eventually he'll accept that he is only human and be able to move on and vow to do better.  Superman can't really do that, because he is not only human.  What's good enough for another hero is not good enough for him.

That's one of the things they got right about returns.  Yeah, there was a lot of silliness and stupid elements, but a lot of the movie centered around Superman stuggling to save every single person from disaster after disaster.  And that brings me to the problem with Man of Steel.  Superman doesn't really seem to give a shit.

Throughout his big battle with Zod and the other Kryptonians, Superman acts with reckless abandon.  He just smashes them all over, making no real effort to minimize collateral damage.  Superman doesn't make a particularly strong attempt to get the dangerous psycopaths who are after him AWAY from the city filled with people.  He punches people through buildings, blows up cars upon cars, and hurls bodies around with little care of where they came from.

If we take Superman's character from the comics, how do you think he would feel as he stands in a city that has been almost completely obliterated by people who would have never come to Earth if not for him?  Would he feel like he failed?  Would he feel responsible?  Would he feel guilty?  Would he be distraught?  For Superman letting one civilian die would be a tragedy.  The thousands who died in the movie would be considered a total failure on his part. How does Man of Steel Superman react to this tragedy?  He makes out with Lois in the rubble and makes a lame joke without giving a thought to the carnage.

This isn't Superman.  If Nolan wants to write a script for an uber powerful outsider, he could do that.  If Snyder wants to make disaster porn, he could do wthat.  But, don't strap a character that doesn't fit to that.  It's like making God of War IV: Starring Kirby.

That is my main problem with the movie, but there are plenty of others... For example...

1.  Did Pa Kent really tell Clark to let a bus of kids die?  For fuck's sake, really?  I get that keeping the secret identiy is important but that's just heartless.  This is the man trying to teach Superman humanity?

2.  Why was Lois on the spaceship besides for plot purposes?  The kryptonians were able to get all the info they needed from Superman's mind anyway.

3.  After leaving the space ship, Supes lands right by his house.  Then promptly leaves.  Uhhhh... So Superman, think the Kryptonians might have seen you land there and may come to the farm where your mom is?  For a guy with a super brain, not so smart.

4. If a guy is firing lasers out of his eyes in a crowded room, twisting his head in a circle is probably the worst thing you could do.

5.  Zod wants to terraform the Earth to make it more like Krypton?  Wait, didn't Jorrel explain how much more nourishing Earth's atmosphere was?

6.  Zod needs to destroy all of humanity rather than try to adjust to Earth's atmosphere.  By the end of the movie he is fighting without a breather on equal terms with the Earth raised Superman.  So, seems like he adjusted without even commiting genocide.  It took about 2 hours.

7.  By the way, isn't Superman's power, and therefore his discomfort, a result of the yellow sun anyway?  Is this terraforming really necessary or useful?

8.  Lois just comes off as a bitch.  Just saying.

9.  Wait... so all of the Kryptonians who were cut off from Krypton died?  Are you kidding me?  Any Kryptonian in a yellow son system should have not only survived but freaking thrived.  And if all the Kryptonians on other worlds struggled so much why does Clark seem to be doing fine?  How is the galaxy not ruled by Kryptonians by now.

10.  Ok... so Superman shoots down a satelite so that they can't find out where he "hangs his cape".  Two seconds later, he casually mentions he's from Kansas.  Thanks for narrowing it down to one sparsely populated state.  If Lois can narrow down his identity in about a week with nothing but google and a smart phone, I think the US army will figure you out clark.

 

He is only angst to fit in when all these abilities kick in out of nowhere during his childhood...plus you got to take into account that he doesn't have a single ancestor that had to adjust to such abilities...so it is NOT second nature to him.

The comic books never really covered his childhood much...it's like the gap between batman age 8 & adult, before someone in 1987 created the origins of Batman's skills.

Superman never was cocky nor full of himself like Thor, so either way that's just asking to go agianst the superman comics.

Plus Superman was full of confidence when he dawn on the suit, but as a kid he was just a kid who just wanted frieñds and to have fun, like any other kid.

Spoilers from here on out:

Being a loner was just him trying to find out what he should do with his life when he has all these unique abilities, plus he had just let his father die just so he could just find the right way to reveal what he can do to the world someday, so he is not just going to screw over what Jonathan Kent died for.

Even in Smallville (series), superman struggles with X-Ray & hearing and so fort, so it is not even a new concept to superman.

Superman is a rookie and has never been a hero outside of saving kids from a easy school bus to just push out of the water. It's hard to fight bad guys with such great power to equal your own when you have never fought in your life...he's from a farm and doesn't know what to do in such a situation, and he does try to minimize the damage in the small town but has no experience and is doing the best he can with no clue on how to even begin to try to handle the situation.....he's a rookie and is just trying to the best of his abili, when he doesn't even really have a grasp on his powers to do full force....this is e weakest suited superman I have ever seen, but he has no clue of just how strong he has become growing on earth.

The black hole didn't kill anyone, they where just sent to another dimension.

Superman has super sight and hearing and X-Ray, so he knows where he threw the Villians. Remember, he grew up his whole life with these abilities.

1): Jonathan Kent said he maybe should have let them die, but then he said that he did the right thing though.

2): lois was on the ship, because since Superman activated the beacon' that meant that he could have learn how to not be successfully probed by Kryptonians, plus the useful knowledge they got from Lois was the exact same useful knowledge they got from superman, so if superman had learned how to not be probe by his biological father or something else on the ship, then they still would have gotten the same useful knowledge that later turned out to be 100% useless. But thanks to the blood sample they learned that every cell in his body was of an entire kryptonian's blood.

3): he clearly knew that his people didn't care about where his mom lived, because why would his advance race care about an earthling, when they are clearly there for a reason that either has to do with his space ship or the one he found or the key with the S or something else that might have something to do with his biological father or something else Kryptonians, especially when they where only asking for him.

4): I agree, but it looked like he clearly thought it thru before doing it, since he really didn't want to kill Zod. So it seems like he knew the right way to go thru with it, especially with all the time he had while he was trying his best to prevent Zod from harming those people while he had him in a headlock.

5) & 6): they didn't care about advance strength & speed, they where only taking advantage of the lower gravity to help them while the humans where still around, since they where planning to terraform the planet, which earthlings can't survive on Krypton's planet. They wanted their home planet back and this was the best they could do' and it would have been the same except for a younger sun, which would only give them bonus abilities that non of them was even aware of. And the strength & speed they automatically got what sun exposure thanks to the suits blocking the rays of then sun, anyways they didn't care for extraodinary strength & speed, they are an advance race that just sees it as a toy that will no longer work as they would have gotten use to the gravity and become weaker in the universe for exploring other planets. Zod first time exposure was an accindent and hurt like hell, he never wanted to go back to that agianst. But he remember what superman said about honing senses and he now had a new helmet, so he could always put it back on by thinking it, if he couldn't have adopted...it was curiousity with no real risk. Plus Zod explained that he was rised since a child to honed all his senses to be the most elite warrior of Krypton (because their people are pre-determined to what they will grow up to be before they are even born, as already explained in the movie too), Superman unfortunately learned how to hone his senses on a farm by people who knew nothing on how to do so, as Zod made fun of Superman when he insulted about where did he learned how to hone his senses, on a farm (semi-accurate quote: "I was raised my whole life since I was a child to hone in all of my senses to be a warrior, where did you learned to hone your senses, on a farm")

7): they didn't terraform the planet to be normal, they did it to bring krypton back since the original home world was destroy, they where home sick since they awiken from the destruction of their planet, as you saw the female Villian cry during the flashback. Plus they didn't know that the sun would do anything to them, and after Zod, it could have been assumed that the nourishing atmosphere was to blame for Zod going thru all that pain.

9): they didn't die, they ended up back in the phantom zone, which is where all life forms & things go to when they get sucked in by a black hole in this movie.

More 9): I don't know exactly what you mean by the rest of that. Please explain in more detail.

10): it's not a satalite, but a drone, like the ones in the middle east in real life. He only mention he was from Kansas to 2 people, and the woman is not going to tell, and the guy will obviously be trustworthy too, since he is left in this movie to try to get people to believe that Superman is not a threat to America's interest. Superman even says that he will just have to trust him then. Lois never revealed the phony names he used, and she only knew of one of them by being with him which is the only thing that made it possible for her to back-track the other phony names he had lived under...plus her sources where willing to talk when superman was a nobody, but now they won't let anyone know of what name nor if he ever was there under each phony name and just deny it now, because Clark is now the great hero Superman who is always going to save earthlings every chance he can.



I wasn't too excited going into this movie. I think Superman is one of the most boring super heroes there is. He's just too perfect, and there's nothing interesting about all these plain human villains they throw at him who all just happen to have picked up some kryptonite from the local supermarket.


That being said. This is one of the coolest movies I've seen in a long time. I've watched it 3 times now, I think it's that good. Don't wanna spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, but you definitely need to go watch this movie.



Kaizar said:

 

He is only angst to fit in when all these abilities kick in out of nowhere during his childhood...plus you got to take into account that he doesn't have a single ancestor that had to adjust to such abilities...so it is NOT second nature to him.

Don't think that I don't understand the plot.  I'm just saying the plot sucks by trying to turn the character into something he wasn't and shouldn't be.

The comic books never really covered his childhood much...it's like the gap between batman age 8 & adult, before someone in 1987 created the origins of Batman's skills.

Superman never was cocky nor full of himself like Thor, so either way that's just asking to go agianst the superman comics.

Ok.  So how about do neither and make him calm, collected, mild mannered, relentlessly moral, and always doing the right thing like he was in the comics?

Plus Superman was full of confidence when he dawn on the suit, but as a kid he was just a kid who just wanted frieñds and to have fun, like any other kid.

And there's really no reason he couldn't make a lot of friends.  With muscles like that and super powers he should have been a pussy magnet.

Spoilers from here on out:

Being a loner was just him trying to find out what he should do with his life when he has all these unique abilities, plus he had just let his father die just so he could just find the right way to reveal what he can do to the world someday, so he is not just going to screw over what Jonathan Kent died for.

But Superman never truly grappled with that.  He's always been portrayed as innately good and moral.  He never required humanity to prove themselve worthy of his salvation.

Even in Smallville (series), superman struggles with X-Ray & hearing and so fort, so it is not even a new concept to superman.

Superman is a rookie and has never been a hero outside of saving kids from a easy school bus to just push out of the water. It's hard to fight bad guys with such great power to equal your own when you have never fought in your life...he's from a farm and doesn't know what to do in such a situation, and he does try to minimize the damage in the small town but has no experience and is doing the best he can with no clue on how to even begin to try to handle the situation.....he's a rookie and is just trying to the best of his abili, when he doesn't even really have a grasp on his powers to do full force....this is e weakest suited superman I have ever seen, but he has no clue of just how strong he has become growing on earth.

There is a difference between not being very good and not caring.  If Superman coouldn't save everyone, that's not necessarily a bad thing, and it could be presented as a part of the growing process for him.  HOwever, he just repeatedly rams through buildings and wrecks shit.  And how hard is it to think "Gee golly maybe I shouldn't fight in a crowded city".  It's not rocket science. 

The black hole didn't kill anyone, they where just sent to another dimension.

The planet engine (or whatever it was called) had to have killed thousands and thousands of people.  There is no way Superman's fight with the kryptonians didn't kill more.  An insurance firm did an analysis of the damage that would have been done in the fight.  It comes out to over 100,000 dead and about 5 trillion in damages

Superman has super sight and hearing and X-Ray, so he knows where he threw the Villians. Remember, he grew up his whole life with these abilities.

You just said that he's a rookie and therefore was a bit careless.  So, he's too much of a rookie to get the villains away from the city, but he's not too much of a rookie to know the exact trajectory each Kryptonian will take when punched, and plot a course that will prevent them from hitting anyone, causing debris to fall on someone, or otherwise injuring maiming or damaging people?  Come on.

And again, after all of the death that happened Superman just sits there making out with Lois.  Not a care in the world about the devastated city, the thousands buried in the rubble.  And why exactly would the world love him for this?  What did he do besides defeat people that would never ever had come to Earth if not for him?  They would have been much better off if Superman had never come to Earth.

So why exactly are we supposed to cheer for Superman?  Because he beat the three aliens that he drew to the planet, and only let about 100,000 people die in the process which millions lost everything they had?  The only "heroic" think Superman did was decide not to commit genocide, and honestly, that's a decision I think most of us would have made.

1): Jonathan Kent said he maybe should have let them die, but then he said that he did the right thing though.

The fact that he even suggested letting the kids die is not only completely out of character, but despicable.

2): lois was on the ship, because since Superman activated the beacon' that meant that he could have learn how to not be successfully probed by Kryptonians, plus the useful knowledge they got from Lois was the exact same useful knowledge they got from superman, so if superman had learned how to not be probe by his biological father or something else on the ship, then they still would have gotten the same useful knowledge that later turned out to be 100% useless. But thanks to the blood sample they learned that every cell in his body was of an entire kryptonian's blood.

They seemed to have absolutely no problem probing him.  The probing system is presumably designed for Kryptonians, so there is no reason that a Kryptonian with no special training should be able to resist it.  Plus, the Kryptonians like JUST got there.  Unless I missed something, I'm not sure how they even knew what his relationship with Lois Lane was.

3): he clearly knew that his people didn't care about where his mom lived, because why would his advance race care about an earthling, when they are clearly there for a reason that either has to do with his space ship or the one he found or the key with the S or something else that might have something to do with his biological father or something else Kryptonians, especially when they where only asking for him.

Uhhhhhh... They brought Lois Lane, a person who Supes barely knew, aboard their ship for more information.  So clearly they had an interest in his personal life and the people close to him.  And you said they're after his space ship, right?  Well, where was the spaceship?  In good ol' Kent farm.  And Clark KNEW it was there because Pa Kent showed him.  So, yeah he should have figured out that they were going to come for his mother.  Just more lazy writing.

4): I agree, but it looked like he clearly thought it thru before doing it, since he really didn't want to kill Zod. So it seems like he knew the right way to go thru with it, especially with all the time he had while he was trying his best to prevent Zod from harming those people while he had him in a headlock.

The beam was so close to those people that turning Zod's head sharply to the right like he did would have killed them before it killed Zod.  He didn't know the right way to go through with it, because the way he did it SHOULD have killed everyone there.  Bad writing is bad, don't try to defend it.

5) & 6): they didn't care about advance strength & speed, they where only taking advantage of the lower gravity to help them while the humans where still around, since they where planning to terraform the planet, which earthlings can't survive on Krypton's planet. They wanted their home planet back and this was the best they could do' and it would have been the same except for a younger sun, which would only give them bonus abilities that non of them was even aware of. And the strength & speed they automatically got what sun exposure thanks to the suits blocking the rays of then sun, anyways they didn't care for extraodinary strength & speed, they are an advance race that just sees it as a toy that will no longer work as they would have gotten use to the gravity and become weaker in the universe for exploring other planets. Zod first time exposure was an accindent and hurt like hell, he never wanted to go back to that agianst. But he remember what superman said about honing senses and he now had a new helmet, so he could always put it back on by thinking it, if he couldn't have adopted...it was curiousity with no real risk. Plus Zod explained that he was rised since a child to honed all his senses to be the most elite warrior of Krypton (because their people are pre-determined to what they will grow up to be before they are even born, as already explained in the movie too), Superman unfortunately learned how to hone his senses on a farm by people who knew nothing on how to do so, as Zod made fun of Superman when he insulted about where did he learned how to hone his senses, on a farm (semi-accurate quote: "I was raised my whole life since I was a child to hone in all of my senses to be a warrior, where did you learned to hone your senses, on a farm")

So... you have a choice of living on a planet that gives you super strength and speed, or one that doesn't.  You're going to choose no super strength? Yeah right.

When talking to Jorrel, he specifically said that terraforming the planet  because it would take too long to adapt to Earth and would be too painful.  Yet, he adapted pretty damn quick.  He didn't have the helmet on during his final fight at all, and he was able to perform just fine.  So, it didn't seem Earth's atmosphere was all that debilitating.Point is, it didn't seem too hard.  And, since Kryptonians seem to like things like food and running water and electricity, destroying all of the planets seems pretty silly.

Now if you want to say "Zod just wanted to kill all the humans because he's a freaking dick". You can say that, and that would make sense, but that's not how the movie explained it. 

7): they didn't terraform the planet to be normal, they did it to bring krypton back since the original home world was destroy, they where home sick since they awiken from the destruction of their planet, as you saw the female Villian cry during the flashback. Plus they didn't know that the sun would do anything to them, and after Zod, it could have been assumed that the nourishing atmosphere was to blame for Zod going thru all that pain.

Uhhhh... they did know the sun would strengthen them.  They didn't have that kind of strength or speed from Krypton and low gravity alone isn't going to make them that much stronger and faster.  And the Kryptonians had done a lot of space exploration and clearly knew the effects of different sons.  The leader of their army should definitely know about things like this.

9): they didn't die, they ended up back in the phantom zone, which is where all life forms & things go to when they get sucked in by a black hole in this movie.

I'm not talking about the Kryptonians in the battle, I'm talking about the ones that traveled through space in the past to other planets like Earth.  Jorrel (or maybe Zod, I forget) says that all of the Kryptonians died sometime after Krypton cut off their space program and left them on whatever planet they were.  Why is this?  How didn't more Kryptonians survive on those world, particularly when any world with a yellow son made them ridiculously strong?

10): it's not a satalite, but a drone, like the ones in the middle east in real life. He only mention he was from Kansas to 2 people, and the woman is not going to tell, and the guy will obviously be trustworthy too, since he is left in this movie to try to get people to believe that Superman is not a threat to America's interest. Superman even says that he will just have to trust him then. Lois never revealed the phony names he used, and she only knew of one of them by being with him which is the only thing that made it possible for her to back-track the other phony names he had lived under...plus her sources where willing to talk when superman was a nobody, but now they won't let anyone know of what name nor if he ever was there under each phony name and just deny it now, because Clark is now the great hero Superman who is always going to save earthlings every chance he can.

Eh... that's just reaching.  Why is the random woman who just met him not go to tell her supervisors, hey he's from Kansas?  And the point is that Lois had such little difficulty finding him that it can't be very hard for the US military to do the same.





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I'm gonna watch it tonight. 3rd movie in the last 9 days.



Best movie of the year yet.



 

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JWeinCom said:
Kaizar said:

I'm just saying the plot sucks by trying to turn the character into something he wasn't and shouldn't be. 

Ok.  So how about do neither and make him calm, collected, mild mannered, relentlessly moral, and always doing the right thing like he was in the comics?


And there's really no reason he couldn't make a lot of friends.  With muscles like that and super powers he should have been a pussy magnet. (Exocet he had already freaked out a bunch of times as a child, and his parents never let him play with other kids, which already made him a freak & a loser, so super powers would have made him like spiderman in spiderman 1 when he defeated his school bully from 2001 or 2002)

Spoilers from here on out:

But Superman never truly grappled with that.  He's always been portrayed as innately good and moral.  He never required humanity to prove themselve worthy of his salvation. (well some originality never hurt, LOL)

 

There is a difference between not being very good and not caring.  If Superman coouldn't save everyone, that's not necessarily a bad thing, and it could be presented as a part of the growing process for him.  HOwever, he just repeatedly rams through buildings and wrecks shit.  And how hard is it to think "Gee golly maybe I shouldn't fight in a crowded city".  It's not rocket science. (it's his first time dealing with super beings, and he's a rookie)

The black hole didn't kill anyone, they where just sent to another dimension.

The planet engine (or whatever it was called) had to have killed thousands and thousands of people.  There is no way Superman's fight with the kryptonians didn't kill more.  An insurance firm did an analysis of the damage that would have been done in the fight.  It comes out to over 100,000 dead and about 5 trillion in damages (you mean terraforming then yeah, but superman was over his head, and knew it, and did what he could)

Superman has super sight and hearing and X-Ray, so he knows where he threw the Villians. Remember, he grew up his whole life with these abilities.

You just said that he's a rookie and therefore was a bit careless.  So, he's too much of a rookie to get the villains away from the city, but he's not too much of a rookie to know the exact trajectory each Kryptonian will take when punched, and plot a course that will prevent them from hitting anyone, causing debris to fall on someone, or otherwise injuring maiming or damaging people?  Come on. (he's a rookie but not careless, just inexperience, and I don't think they are capable of calculating debris falling as a result)

And again, after all of the death that happened Superman just sits there making out with Lois.  Not a care in the world about the devastated city, the thousands buried in the rubble.  And why exactly would the world love him for this?  What did he do besides defeat people that would never ever had come to Earth if not for him?  They would have been much better off if Superman had never come to Earth. (he did what any noob could in his shoes. And they knew him for a long enough time to know he was just a good guy trying to live life like everyone else, and no sane person would hold that against him for the ones that knew him anyway)

So why exactly are we supposed to cheer for Superman?  Because he beat the three aliens that he drew to the planet, and only let about 100,000 people die in the process which millions lost everything they had?  The only "heroic" think Superman did was decide not to commit genocide, and honestly, that's a decision I think most of us would have made. (superman was sent as a baby with no decision in the matter)

1): Jonathan Kent said he maybe should have let them die, but then he said that he did the right thing though.

The fact that he even suggested letting the kids die is not only completely out of character, but despicable. (he was just trying to argue a point and that was the best he could freestyle. He is a father desperate to protect his son from living a life as a test subject and/or whatever)

2): lois was on the ship, because since Superman activated the beacon' that meant that he could have learn how to not be successfully probed by Kryptonians, plus the useful knowledge they got from Lois was the exact same useful knowledge they got from superman, so if superman had learned how to not be probe by his biological father or something else on the ship, then they still would have gotten the same useful knowledge that later turned out to be 100% useless. But thanks to the blood sample they learned that every cell in his body was of an entire kryptonian's blood.

They seemed to have absolutely no problem probing him.  The probing system is presumably designed for Kryptonians, so there is no reason that a Kryptonian with no special training should be able to resist it.  Plus, the Kryptonians like JUST got there.  Unless I missed something, I'm not sure how they even knew what his relationship with Lois Lane was. (because he never learned about his people probing capability)

3): he clearly knew that his people didn't care about where his mom lived, because why would his advance race care about an earthling, when they are clearly there for a reason that either has to do with his space ship or the one he found or the key with the S or something else that might have something to do with his biological father or something else Kryptonians, especially when they where only asking for him.

Uhhhhhh... They brought Lois Lane, a person who Supes barely knew, aboard their ship for more information.  So clearly they had an interest in his personal life and the people close to him.  And you said they're after his space ship, right?  Well, where was the spaceship?  In good ol' Kent farm.  And Clark KNEW it was there because Pa Kent showed him.  So, yeah he should have figured out that they were going to come for his mother.  Just more lazy writing. (they just wanted to know where the codex was, and they desperately wanted to know, to clone their kind descendants. They clearly had some sort of sensor to detect if it was near by, if it wasn't put into the cells of his body. They didn't know if he was capable of not being probed, so Lois was like back-up probing. And he didn't even know what exactly they where after, nor did he think they could have a way to get info from him)

4): I agree, but it looked like he clearly thought it thru before doing it, since he really didn't want to kill Zod. So it seems like he knew the right way to go thru with it, especially with all the time he had while he was trying his best to prevent Zod from harming those people while he had him in a headlock.

The beam was so close to those people that turning Zod's head sharply to the right like he did would have killed them before it killed Zod.  He didn't know the right way to go through with it, because the way he did it SHOULD have killed everyone there.  Bad writing is bad, don't try to defend it. (I believe he stood Zod up first before killing him as to avoid them being hurt since it would just go above their heads if he did it quick)

5) & 6): they didn't care about advance strength & speed, they where only taking advantage of the lower gravity to help them while the humans where still around, since they where planning to terraform the planet, which earthlings can't survive on Krypton's planet. They wanted their home planet back and this was the best they could do' and it would have been the same except for a younger sun, which would only give them bonus abilities that non of them was even aware of. And the strength & speed they automatically got what sun exposure thanks to the suits blocking the rays of then sun, anyways they didn't care for extraodinary strength & speed, they are an advance race that just sees it as a toy that will no longer work as they would have gotten use to the gravity and become weaker in the universe for exploring other planets. Zod first time exposure was an accindent and hurt like hell, he never wanted to go back to that agianst. But he remember what superman said about honing senses and he now had a new helmet, so he could always put it back on by thinking it, if he couldn't have adopted...it was curiousity with no real risk. Plus Zod explained that he was rised since a child to honed all his senses to be the most elite warrior of Krypton (because their people are pre-determined to what they will grow up to be before they are even born, as already explained in the movie too), Superman unfortunately learned how to hone his senses on a farm by people who knew nothing on how to do so, as Zod made fun of Superman when he insulted about where did he learned how to hone his senses, on a farm (semi-accurate quote: "I was raised my whole life since I was a child to hone in all of my senses to be a warrior, where did you learned to hone your senses, on a farm")

So... you have a choice of living on a planet that gives you super strength and speed, or one that doesn't.  You're going to choose no super strength? Yeah right. (only his dad from krypton knew of the yellow sun orbiting planet and shared it with his biological mother, and even they didn't want to send their son to earth to have unordinary abilities)

When talking to Jorrel, he specifically said that terraforming the planet  because it would take too long to adapt to Earth and would be too painful.  Yet, he adapted pretty damn quick.  He didn't have the helmet on during his final fight at all, and he was able to perform just fine.  So, it didn't seem Earth's atmosphere was all that debilitating.Point is, it didn't seem too hard.  And, since Kryptonians seem to like things like food and running water and electricity, destroying all of the planets seems pretty silly. (jorrel had clearly underestimated the yellow sun as he told superman when he said superman has become even more stronger then he could have ever imagine and that the only way he can tell how strong he is is to keep testing his limits, and Zod was trained his whole life to control his senses perfectly, plus the effects of the yellow sun was underestimated by all, and terraforming earth would have brought about new metals and new plants to be harvested & so fort)

Now if you want to say "Zod just wanted to kill all the humans because he's a freaking dick". You can say that, and that would make sense, but that's not how the movie explained it. (Zod was raised in a brainwash way to protect his people and home world, but when that went, well he had new objectives to continue what he was raised for, and he only cares about his own people, so yeah he's a dick LOL)

7): they didn't terraform the planet to be normal, they did it to bring krypton back since the original home world was destroy, they where home sick since they awiken from the destruction of their planet, as you saw the female Villian cry during the flashback. Plus they didn't know that the sun would do anything to them, and after Zod, it could have been assumed that the nourishing atmosphere was to blame for Zod going thru all that pain.

Uhhhh... they did know the sun would strengthen them.  They didn't have that kind of strength or speed from Krypton and low gravity alone isn't going to make them that much stronger and faster.  And the Kryptonians had done a lot of space exploration and clearly knew the effects of different sons.  The leader of their army should definitely know about things like this. (they like a younger sun, and the powers they underestimated would have only serve as a bonus to them as far as these strange aliens with their brainwash ways where concern)

9): they didn't die, they ended up back in the phantom zone, which is where all life forms & things go to when they get sucked in by a black hole in this movie.

I'm not talking about the Kryptonians in the battle, I'm talking about the ones that traveled through space in the past to other planets like Earth.  Jorrel (or maybe Zod, I forget) says that all of the Kryptonians died sometime after Krypton cut off their space program and left them on whatever planet they were.  Why is this?  How didn't more Kryptonians survive on those world, particularly when any world with a yellow son made them ridiculously strong? (there was no yellow sun on those planets from their galaxy that close' which is why jorrel went to the trouble to find earth which is so much more way further away)

10): it's not a satalite, but a drone, like the ones in the middle east in real life. He only mention he was from Kansas to 2 people, and the woman is not going to tell, and the guy will obviously be trustworthy too, since he is left in this movie to try to get people to believe that Superman is not a threat to America's interest. Superman even says that he will just have to trust him then. Lois never revealed the phony names he used, and she only knew of one of them by being with him which is the only thing that made it possible for her to back-track the other phony names he had lived under...plus her sources where willing to talk when superman was a nobody, but now they won't let anyone know of what name nor if he ever was there under each phony name and just deny it now, because Clark is now the great hero Superman who is always going to save earthlings every chance he can.

Eh... that's just reaching.  Why is the random woman who just met him not go to tell her supervisors, hey he's from Kansas?  And the point is that Lois had such little difficulty finding him that it can't be very hard for the US military to do the same. (only the guy has to report the incident, unless she suspected her commending officer there with her of treason, and the guy is set up in that scene for whether or not superman leap of faith will be rewarded. The goverment finds it more easier & less time consuming to use drones to find him, which is how that scene came up)



I did my points in italic bold.
Any point I didn't argue against, I agree on.