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Forums - Politics - Riots in Stockholm

Slimebeast on 29 May 2013
DanneSandin said:
Slimebeast said:
DanneSandin said:

I believe very firmly in that people are people, and that there are lazy people all over the world and that genetics have nothing to do with that. The lazy gene is found in every place on the globe. And I think most 3rd world countries are working way harder than the 1st world.

Not genes, no.

But cultures and societies impact work ethics, our attitudes towards work. Do you know why Northern Europeans (and thus North Americans) have strong work ethics compared to most Catholic nations? Because of Martin Luther.

If the dentist had said "is there a psychological explanation to why asians work hard", would you even have raised an eyebrow?

Absolutely, but I'd argue thatmany many immigrants comes from harder working cultures than we have in Northern Europe. Why? Because in many countries they're living like we did 100 years ago, so you have to work 12 hours a day, and you start working at the age of 10, and if you don't work you starve.

I'm not saying that these are the people that's coming here, just saying that there are harder working cultures than any in EU

I agree.

The trend in the West is to work less and less as our economy improves.

Thankfully.

I don't want to work until I'm 75.



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DanneSandin on 29 May 2013
Slimebeast said:
DanneSandin said:
Slimebeast said:
DanneSandin said:

I believe very firmly in that people are people, and that there are lazy people all over the world and that genetics have nothing to do with that. The lazy gene is found in every place on the globe. And I think most 3rd world countries are working way harder than the 1st world.

Not genes, no.

But cultures and societies impact work ethics, our attitudes towards work. Do you know why Northern Europeans (and thus North Americans) have strong work ethics compared to most Catholic nations? Because of Martin Luther.

If the dentist had said "is there a psychological explanation to why asians work hard", would you even have raised an eyebrow?

Absolutely, but I'd argue thatmany many immigrants comes from harder working cultures than we have in Northern Europe. Why? Because in many countries they're living like we did 100 years ago, so you have to work 12 hours a day, and you start working at the age of 10, and if you don't work you starve.

I'm not saying that these are the people that's coming here, just saying that there are harder working cultures than any in EU

I agree.

The trend in the West is to work less and less as our economy improves.

Thankfully.

I don't want to work until I'm 75.


Man when I'm 75 I'll be living the sweet life! Just chillin' and traveling. Maybe mess around with my grand kids; sneaking candy under the table and fun stuff like that!



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KungKras on 29 May 2013
DevilRising said:
KungKras said:
That's what happens when you concentrate immigrants in places that then becomes segregated. They need to be more spread out across the country. Swedish language classes not being mandatory is a problem for the integration as well...


Sadly the same can be said of the US, and has largely been the case since it's founding.....

Since it's founding?

What are we discussing now? :)



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the2real4mafol on 29 May 2013
DanneSandin said:
the2real4mafol said:
DanneSandin said:
the2real4mafol said:

It could also be said to have lead to the rise of parties like UKIP too, where limiting immigration is among their main policies who will probably win a handful of seats for the first time in 2015. But anyway, it's time politicians started thinking in the long term, on issues like immigration. Otherwise these countries will become increasingly worse off. i'm not sure how much this can be put to immigration but it seems wages have fallen, crime has increased and quality of life has fallen since mass immigration was allowed. Immigration can be a good thing, but not when you allow just about anyone in.  

I actually don't think the core issue is immigrants themselves, but rather the intergration politics... Sweden saw a boom in immigrants in the 60's and 70's when we actuallu needed additional workforce, and those have gone on and integrated into the sociaty. It's when a country is taking in a lot of immigrants and not caring for them when problems arises. This is an issue here in Sweden, and that's why Sverige Demokraterna (the Swedish Democrates) have gain ground with their anti-immigration politics. I think they're actually the 4th biggest party right now in the parlament (from not having any seats in parlament the period before). I totally agree that politicians needs to wake the fuck up and plan long term.

Yeah, if they aren't integrated properly by learning the language for example (something they should really do before they come), they will end up in social enclaves, which leads to social problems between migrants and natives, leading to misunderstandings and posibly riots. What else could you give to migrants? In the UK, some of them (a extreme case but still) get housing, food, benefits and education within days of being in the country which is hardly fair on those born here and have worked and paid taxes there whole lifes. Those who choose to move to our country, must learn the language, respect our culture (they are free to practice theirs obviously) and contribute to the economy (it's what is expected in many countries). We are just too soft on immigration and ordinary people suffer for it. 

I can only agree that if you move to a new country you need to learn the language and respect the culture.

Yeah that probably causes much of the problems between natives and immigrants to be honest



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DevilRising on 30 May 2013
KungKras said:
DevilRising said:
KungKras said:
That's what happens when you concentrate immigrants in places that then becomes segregated. They need to be more spread out across the country. Swedish language classes not being mandatory is a problem for the integration as well...


Sadly the same can be said of the US, and has largely been the case since it's founding.....

Since it's founding?

What are we discussing now? :)

 

 

Well, for one thing, African slavery. For another, the treatment (progressive eradication) of Native Americans tribes. For yet another, the treatment of any non-white immigrants, such as the Chinese, Japanese, Fillapino, Hmong, etc. all the way up through the 1970s, and it honestly continues today. In general, America has had a very long history of segregation, whether overt or not, and having various immigrant groups treated poorly and corralled into specific areas/neighborhoods separate from the rest. That exact thing happened to the waves of Irish who came over at various points. And the Polish. And the Jews. Basically as soon as the independant colonies started growing and mixing, as soon as America started becoming a "melting pot", this started happening. It's just a fact of history.

And also, as you mentioned, in our case, having no policy in place to teach new immigrants English, so as to better communicate, certainly doesn't help, to this day.