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Forums - Politics - Riots in Stockholm

DanneSandin on 28 May 2013

Oh man... there's some pretty strong opinions in here - with a lot of text :P I'll work through those that answered me in due time ^^



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DanneSandin on 28 May 2013
Slimebeast said:
DanneSandin said:

I actually don't think the core issue is immigrants themselves, but rather the intergration politics... Sweden saw a boom in immigrants in the 60's and 70's when we actuallu needed additional workforce, and those have gone on and integrated into the sociaty. It's when a country is taking in a lot of immigrants and not caring for them when problems arises. This is an issue here in Sweden, and that's why Sverige Demokraterna (the Swedish Democrates) have gain ground with their anti-immigration politics. I think they're actually the 4th biggest party right now in the parlament (from not having any seats in parlament the period before). I totally agree that politicians needs to wake the fuck up and plan long term.

"not caring"? Really?

We "care" for them too much. There are dozens of government programs that are directed to immigrants specifically, actually discriminating native Swedes as a side-effect. None of these programs or special support existed in the 60's and 70's.

Nobody in the whole world cares so much about the foreigner as the Swede does, ignoring his own people in the process.

The more we care the more they demand in an endless spiral which will go on until the natives have gone extinct.

What I meant is that the integration politics isn't working as they should. What the goverment is doing right now is obviously not working. We're not caring for them in the right way, so to speak. Something has to change.



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DanneSandin on 28 May 2013
walsufnir said:
DanneSandin said:
walsufnir said:


I think this is only a part of the truth. We also had a lot of immigrants in Germany after WWII and mostly they came from Italy, Spain and Greece. After that our economy was established and then other immigrants followed, mostly from Turkey. We never had real problems with italiens, spanish or greece people but still today with turkish people, nowadays generally with people from the middle-east. I don't know why they are so special as they are the only ones we have problems with. Even other immigrants moan about these people and don't understand why they refuse to integrate in our society.

Honestly, immigrants complain about other immigrants like hell. I've heard a kurd bitching about arabs, and arabs bithcing about africans (boy, that is SUCH a generalization!!) and so on and so forth. I think it gets harder to integrate into a society the firther away you came originally simply because the difference in cultures will be wider. Italians, Spaniards and Greeks are all Europeans and we all share some cultural history, while if you're from Turkey (or anywhere from the Middle East) the cultural difference will be even bigger.


Oh, I once thought this, too, but surprisingly we have close to no problems integrating asians (I heard that arabic people are called "asians" in UK but I am talking about "real" asians here). We have a lot of vietnamese, japanese and chinese people here. I wouldn't say they are as integrated as many others but they focus on a very good education for their children and want them to study which a lot of these do after school. These are the people we need: well-educated people who don't disrespect the country that offers them all the choices they have. Not people who think religion is an important thing in their life - in a way that living together with other people is nearly impossible.

LOL @ "real" asians.... I get what you mean, but that's generalizing as hell :P just like me and "africans".

Can't really disagree with bolded....

Can't say I like religion either...

I haven't looked into this all that much (not at all in fact), I'm just throwing out theories out there.



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Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

KungKras on 28 May 2013
walsufnir said:
DanneSandin said:
the2real4mafol said:
 
 

It could also be said to have lead to the rise of parties like UKIP too, where limiting immigration is among their main policies who will probably win a handful of seats for the first time in 2015. But anyway, it's time politicians started thinking in the long term, on issues like immigration. Otherwise these countries will become increasingly worse off. i'm not sure how much this can be put to immigration but it seems wages have fallen, crime has increased and quality of life has fallen since mass immigration was allowed. Immigration can be a good thing, but not when you allow just about anyone in.

I actually don't think the core issue is immigrants themselves, but rather the intergration politics... Sweden saw a boom in immigrants in the 60's and 70's when we actuallu needed additional workforce, and those have gone on and integrated into the sociaty. It's when a country is taking in a lot of immigrants and not caring for them when problems arises. This is an issue here in Sweden, and that's why Sverige Demokraterna (the Swedish Democrates) have gain ground with their anti-immigration politics. I think they're actually the 4th biggest party right now in the parlament (from not having any seats in parlament the period before). I totally agree that politicians needs to wake the fuck up and plan long term.


I think this is only a part of the truth. We also had a lot of immigrants in Germany after WWII and mostly they came from Italy, Spain and Greece. After that our economy was established and then other immigrants followed, mostly from Turkey. We never had real problems with italiens, spanish or greece people but still today with turkish people, nowadays generally with people from the middle-east. I don't know why they are so special as they are the only ones we have problems with. Even other immigrants moan about these people and don't understand why they refuse to integrate in our society.

People from very religious places like the middle east are a problem. That is one of the reasons why I think we need to spread out the immigrants instead of concentrate them in the suburbs. Then, their children will hopefully grow up in schools and around people with lots of secular natives, and hopefully become secular themselves. If we concentrate them all into the same place, they'll radicalize.



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sales2099 on 28 May 2013

Does it say the main backround of the immigrants?



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the2real4mafol on 28 May 2013
badgenome said:
the2real4mafol said:

This is the exact problem in the UK, i'm surprised there haven't been similar riots here to be honest. Unless the 2011 August riots in London happened due to racial tensions (i don't think they did).

They did, at least in part. But once they weren't contained, opportunistic scumbags of all races decided to join in the festivities.

That sounds about right, shame the police were so useless at dealing with that riot. And yet when it's a defenseless miner striking (1984), the police find it just fine to get on a horse and whack them!



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the2real4mafol on 28 May 2013
DanneSandin said:
the2real4mafol said:

It could also be said to have lead to the rise of parties like UKIP too, where limiting immigration is among their main policies who will probably win a handful of seats for the first time in 2015. But anyway, it's time politicians started thinking in the long term, on issues like immigration. Otherwise these countries will become increasingly worse off. i'm not sure how much this can be put to immigration but it seems wages have fallen, crime has increased and quality of life has fallen since mass immigration was allowed. Immigration can be a good thing, but not when you allow just about anyone in.  

I actually don't think the core issue is immigrants themselves, but rather the intergration politics... Sweden saw a boom in immigrants in the 60's and 70's when we actuallu needed additional workforce, and those have gone on and integrated into the sociaty. It's when a country is taking in a lot of immigrants and not caring for them when problems arises. This is an issue here in Sweden, and that's why Sverige Demokraterna (the Swedish Democrates) have gain ground with their anti-immigration politics. I think they're actually the 4th biggest party right now in the parlament (from not having any seats in parlament the period before). I totally agree that politicians needs to wake the fuck up and plan long term.

Yeah, if they aren't integrated properly by learning the language for example (something they should really do before they come), they will end up in social enclaves, which leads to social problems between migrants and natives, leading to misunderstandings and posibly riots. What else could you give to migrants? In the UK, some of them (a extreme case but still) get housing, food, benefits and education within days of being in the country which is hardly fair on those born here and have worked and paid taxes there whole lifes. Those who choose to move to our country, must learn the language, respect our culture (they are free to practice theirs obviously) and contribute to the economy (it's what is expected in many countries). We are just too soft on immigration and ordinary people suffer for it. 



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'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

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Kasz216 on 28 May 2013
badgenome said:
Whether it's France or Sweden, I like how it's always the generic "youths" whenever this happens.


Reminds me of this...

 

It did take me like... 4 paragraphs to figure out who was doing the rioting.  Hell at first i thought it was the right wing extremists since they were "patrolling" in cars.

 

The police not intervening in this stuff is just pretty awful... and people wonder why the US is so Pro-Gun.

A comparison to EU riots, to the LA riots more or less explains it.

 

When shit gets super bad like this.  The police don't look out for the innocent people or their livelyhoods.



Kasz216 on 28 May 2013
DanneSandin said:
walsufnir said:

Honestly, immigrants complain about other immigrants like hell.


Isn't that the truth.  Hell as a whole it feels like if anything they're more racist/anti immigration.

I've never met people who hate muslims more then my Iraqi bosses. (Though to be fair, being Christians they may have faced discrimination before they moved.)

My Indian dentist asked me if psychology has an explination for why black people are lazy.

Africans mand African Amricans have a weird relationship in the US.



DanneSandin on 28 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:
DanneSandin said:
the2real4mafol said:

It could also be said to have lead to the rise of parties like UKIP too, where limiting immigration is among their main policies who will probably win a handful of seats for the first time in 2015. But anyway, it's time politicians started thinking in the long term, on issues like immigration. Otherwise these countries will become increasingly worse off. i'm not sure how much this can be put to immigration but it seems wages have fallen, crime has increased and quality of life has fallen since mass immigration was allowed. Immigration can be a good thing, but not when you allow just about anyone in.  

I actually don't think the core issue is immigrants themselves, but rather the intergration politics... Sweden saw a boom in immigrants in the 60's and 70's when we actuallu needed additional workforce, and those have gone on and integrated into the sociaty. It's when a country is taking in a lot of immigrants and not caring for them when problems arises. This is an issue here in Sweden, and that's why Sverige Demokraterna (the Swedish Democrates) have gain ground with their anti-immigration politics. I think they're actually the 4th biggest party right now in the parlament (from not having any seats in parlament the period before). I totally agree that politicians needs to wake the fuck up and plan long term.

Yeah, if they aren't integrated properly by learning the language for example (something they should really do before they come), they will end up in social enclaves, which leads to social problems between migrants and natives, leading to misunderstandings and posibly riots. What else could you give to migrants? In the UK, some of them (a extreme case but still) get housing, food, benefits and education within days of being in the country which is hardly fair on those born here and have worked and paid taxes there whole lifes. Those who choose to move to our country, must learn the language, respect our culture (they are free to practice theirs obviously) and contribute to the economy (it's what is expected in many countries). We are just too soft on immigration and ordinary people suffer for it. 

I can only agree that if you move to a new country you need to learn the language and respect the culture.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.